Wednesday, February 26, 2020

Questions. I Get Questions...

Here's a good one:
Okay Aesop, Here I sit, 76 Years of experience. With stock of N 95 & 99 masks, latex or poly gloves, a months worth of food and a reasonable supply of ammunition.
Things I NEED to know."
1, How long will the virus exist in open air, after some unfortunate has sneezed?
2, Will soap and water kill the little bastards? Showering after a trip to the drugstore? What if any soap or cleaning agent for normal people should be used?
3, Will local water supplies, (municipal, chlorinated etc) be reasonably free of the virus? If not, what will kill it? Boiling, salt, A few drops of Chlorox / gallon?
4, Any suggestions from someone that knows a hell of a lot more than me???

1) From seconds, up to 10 minutes. It's a parabolic curve.

2) Soap and water, per se, kills next to nothing, it removes things and washes them down the drain. Hot enough water may kill some, incidental to washing.
3) Normal washing suffices for cleaning clothes. You don't need to be surgically sterile. Most virucidal agents will sterilize things adequately, including weak bleach solutions, or commercial wipes, isopropyl alcohol, etc., for the few things (shoe soles, personal items) you might be worried about. Local water supplies, under normal operations, will be potable, and virus-free, as they're usually chlorinated and UV-exposed, etc.. Check with your muni supplier on their process if unsure.
4) At some point, stop leaving your house. You may not be given a choice about this by TPTB. That point will likely be long after the horse has left the barn.

Rule of Thumb: coughing among people is going to become the new Drunk In Public, with a side-order of Black Death, socially.
If someone is, expect them to be literally bum-rushed the hell out and away from people, possibly with some ardor and community violence. I mean that. Noses will get punched, and eyes will get blackened, until people catch on.

This will stop being funny when people start dying.
Then the torches and pitchforks come out.

5) Wash. Your. Hands.
Most epidemics happen because you touch an infected object (doorknob, shopping cart, etc.) and then touch your mouth, nose, eyes, etc., or shove food in your maw.
that's how you get the common cold. The flu. Gastroenteritis. Etc.
Stop doing that.
Wash. Your. Hands. Before you touch yourself or feed yourself.
Kids (under age 25, at which point common sense grows in) are the lion's share of this problem, which is how epidemics propagate from September until summer recess, and peak from Thanksgiving to Easter, and multiple generations gather inside cramped houses and share everything, including swapping spit, literally.

That eliminates about 97% of the problem.
The rest is being coughed/sneezed on by infected people.

If you're not out in that, you don't get it.

It isn't going to blow in your window and ass-rape you.

And being 76, you're evidently at higher risk of serious complications from this thing, based on all available information.
70 and up seems to be where this thing starts really going to town on people, and it can get iffier for those in their 60s, especially with other co-morbidity conditions, like hypertension, diabetes, smoking issues, etc.


Anonymous said...

#2 is not exactly correct. While soap and water only wash out most things, they actually do kill enveloped viruses (COVID-19 is an enveloped RNA virus). That is actually one way to inactivate the virus in the lab. One needs to be thorough with the washing though. A few minutes at the least.

Anonymous said...

Once more Brother you are rendering service to those smart enough to read and heed.
Boat Guy

Aesop said...


I covered that in the end of #2, but it's near enough as no difference.
Unless we're talking really hot, an ordinary wash & rinse is not a sterilizer, but it removes what you're worried about enough to make it matter.

The correct answer for most folks is not to be playing where you're going to get WuFlu all over your clothes in the first place. Unless you're wearing Tyvek or a Level A encapsulating suit, and taking a bleach rinse on entry and exit.

Do that, and you're gold. You'll also scare the sh*t out of everyone in sight, which may help. Or not.

Eaton Rapids Joe said...

Nitpick, decaying exponential rather than parabolic.

Good video here Scroll to the two minute mark to get to the interesting stuff. Essentially, in a turbulent environment, the smallest sneeze droplets are suspended indefinitely. What is a turbulent environment? One with fans or where the HVAC system injects high velocity air.

Anonymous said...

If you're not already, start taking at least 5000 I.U.'s of daily Vitamin D. It would be a good idea to jump start that by taking 10-20,000 for a few days. Vitamin D is imperative for a strong immune system. Typically viruses are a fall-winter occurrence because of less sunlight from which D is obtained naturally. --Ron W

Marina said...

Thank you again Aesop. I've been religiously following your recommendations (since Ebola) as well as the daily Corona updates from Chris Martenson: and his follow-up articles (check comments too) and I also check this site every morning for current stats:
One question: I read that latex gloves were no good because of micron size and instead to get nitrile gloves. What's your thought on this ? Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Question on n95 mask use for those who have ready access to them, as I've never used them for hazmat (our shop uses them all the time for dust mitigation, and in that context they are re-used until they look dirty and clogged): are masks considered single use from a pathogen defense perspective? Throw it away once you've worn it once?

Thanks for all the valuable information and perspective you share.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Aesop. Don’t know how I found your blog but so glad I did. And the way you say things reminds me of my beloved army dad, who would never sugar coat anything.

MTHead said...

Having worn those mask much in my life. I can tell you the biggest problem in fit is the nose/ cheek bridge. If your a nosy bastard like me. Also facial hair. (That's why Hitler had that funny mustache). Learning sanitary habits are going to go along way. I think Aesop would agree that feeling protected in your facemask won't replace good situational awareness/ sanitary practices. And sense there made in China. Buyer beware.
Who would have thought that burkas might be in all our future? HA!

Anonymous said...

Nitrile gloves Marina.

Termite said...


While I am not part of the "black helicopter conspiracy" crowd.....

I am starting to wonder........ why has the DOW has taken such a major hit, and why people are running in circles panicking, over a virus that seems to be at worst 2% fatal. And......
It seems to be hardest on the very young, very old, and those between the young and old with compromised immune systems.
Kind of like the common flu with "bigger muscles"?

Or am I missing something?


The Gray Man said...

It’s actually above 3.3% fatal now, and people are panicking because that’s what they do. But also because we get all of our junk and a bunch of our food from China, and this disease is significantly more contagious than most other things, like SARS, MERS or the flu. Contagious enough that’s it’s flying through China where we, again, get all of our stuff. There are also a lot of dead people who were not young, old, or immunocompromised.

tweell said...

I have a 30W UV-C light for dealing with the (former) mold in my house. Don't figure it will be all that useful, but may bring it out to sterilize common areas if needed.

Folks that have pets might want to get an extra bag or two of food for them. It's another thing that won't go to waste if the Good Lord smiles on us, and will be much appreciated otherwise.

Aesop said...

What The Gray Man said, above.

People are losing their collective shit, because it's dawning on them that this is not a drill, and shit's getting real.

Anonymous said...

We've had a fairly well stocked TEOTWAWKI basement storage area for at least two decades now, so that part isn't new to us. There is something reassuring about being able to shelter in place if something happens (like extended power outages, etc that we routinely experience in our AO) that you don't have to mingle with the crowds. Infectious disease exposure aside, whenever there is an "event", the average person acts like an idiot so it is always best to steer clear if possible.

Getting extensions beyond a 3 month supply on necessary Rx is proving to be problematic. Tricare fail, again.

I agree the best solution is to shelter in place as much as possible, if the TPTB will let you.

My mom has a background in microbiology and a medical reference lab before she retired and also happens to be an "OCD germaphobe", according to my older sister, which we all are now finally paying attention to. Maybe Mom wasn't so crazy all these years.

Mom has some health issues and her SOP has always been to minimize interaction with the outside world during the winter months if possible when people are indoors more in confined quarters. She only goes to the doc if absolutely necessary, shops at off hours, wipes down things with ETOH wipes, rigorous hand washing with a disposable plastic surgical scrub brush she reuses for her personal use. Etc. She's never gone to the full extent of wearing a mask in public, but she is big on gloves and using elbows for turning off light switches, taps, doors etc when feasible. She has a small portable UV-C sanitizer she uses for her cell phone, glasses, keys etc when she returns from a visit to the outside world. We all used to laugh at her for years.

Mom just became a US citizen and the ceremony was this month. Originally her ceremony was scheduled as a small 20 person type deal locally but then she was notified her ceremony had been "upgraded" to the local federal courthouse with over 100 new citizens being sworn in simultaneously - mostly so the local Judges could use it as an opportunity to canvass for votes for an upcoming local election.

Mom was surrounding by the flotsam and jetsam of the third world hacking, coughing, sneezing with abandon jammed asp to elbow in narrow chairs with minimal distance between them. No attempt to cover mouth, cough into sleeve, etc. Just rampant spewing and wiping of snot over all kinds of surfaces. The lady next to Mom was of unknown Asian origin and hacking and sneezing repeatedly without once trying to mitigate her contamination of shared space. Once she turned her head and coughed vigorously, open mouthed, in my Mom's direction. I thought Mom was going to have a meltdown and she did admit it started giving her chest pain as she was trapped with no where to go. It's not so much NCV19 but the multitude of other seasonal things that will weaken her already weak immune system, making her more vulnerable to a more dramatic course of NCV19 should she become infected. As she told me after the ceremony, she is resigned to getting "something".

IMHO The TPTB are already well behind the power curve on this.

Keeping your immune system strong is a good course of action. Multivitamins, Vit C, Zinc, Magnesium, and even Iodine supplements are helpful. Many health practitioners poo poo multivitamins as "expensive urine", but whatever your body doesn't need it will excrete so it's cheap insurance if you're run down and eating foods that aren't nutritionally complete/high quality.

Thanks for what you do Aesop. Stay safe as best as you can. My prediction is people are going to act like fools, sooner rather than later. That especially includes your local gooberment.

nick flandrey said...

You may have to pay for your extra prescriptions out of pocket.

Ask your Dr to write you, then take it somewhere other than your regular place. Be honest with the doc about why, let him know you are worried about availability and taking up space in his office in the middle of a crisis...

Worth a try anyway.


FredLewers said...

This just occurred to me...
I live in a small town in east Texas. The interstate runs right beside this town. There's two truckstops and two motels and maybe a dozen eateries right there. All employing locals and serving a transient customer base. And A LOT OF LOCALLY BASED TRUCK DRIVERS...
Coronavirus is going to get into one (singular) (1) traveler and spread like a wildfire!
1 asymptomatic traveler is the guaranteed wild card.
Some trucker that picked up a container in a west coast port and drove it clear across the country. While stopping at EVERY truckstop that has a pretty cashier. Some pharmaceutical sales rep that just happens to have an Asian doctor(s) on their customer list. A week before the annual convention that didn't get cancelled because reasons... Some young person with a backpack and no particular destination...
Yeah... We're well and truly fucked people.

lineman said...

The problem with this virus is by the time it's recognized in your area most everyone will be exposed by then...So you can plan to stay isolated but if you're serious then you better start now which a lot of us can't do at this point...What's going to affect us more is the supply issue and not being able to get the things we need to survive which we can be preparing for now if you haven't already...

Anonymous said...

Major fucking prediction there.