So a few days ago, I noted that Tam had rather grossly overstated the argument against the above holster.
Being busier here with another topic, I hadn't noticed her reply.
If you hadn't seen it either, by all means, RTWT.
She takes me to task for this statement of mine:
"We won't even talk about ... where your appendix carry muzzle is pointed, sitting in a vehicle seat." - Aesopwith this response:
"If you're carrying AIWB correctly, it should be pointing at the seat. If it's pointing at anything else, you need to fix yourself." - TamAnd icing on the cake, posted the following video to "help" me see the error of my ways.
I thought my vision was pretty good, but maybe I'm off and it's time for glasses. Any guys out there, go to the 1:21 mark in that video, and tell me where this guy's got his muzzle pointed.
I may also have different anatomy than every guy on the planet (I haven't seen you all, so I'm being scrupulously scientifically accurate), but I'm almost metaphysically certain I have different anatomy where that muzzle is pointed than Tam does. Which was the exact point I made about appendix carry. The muzzle in the video she chose for an example is pointed at the car seat all right...after passing through a few bits I (and presumably, shortbarrelshepherd in that video) are rather fond of. So if I could offer a few brief rejoinders to her observations:
a) I'd need to "fix" myself - like tomcats get "fixed" - to not be pointing at the danger zone previously, scrupulously, and accurately identified. Tam might like that, but me, not so much.
b) The parts in question, being anatomically attached to me, don't move very far from the designed anchor point, just like they're right in the kill zone in the video. Anyone in the class remember what Rule 1 is? Anyone...?
c) The proximity of the muzzle (not to mention a blade) to two separate femoral arteries, which allow one to bleed out in about 10 seconds if well-punctured, probably needs no further explanation. Nor does what happens when airbags go off or one's body flies into the restraining seatbelt in a collision at speed. I'm morbid like this, but it would strike me as an annoying irony to wear a gun for protection, and have it discharge into my vitals because I placed it directly in the impact zone of vehicle safety equipment, because Gaston Glock or Bill Ruger didn't think to crash-test it for me beforehand. Just saying.
d) If you're going to school someone with a video, probably best to watch it first yourself before making the other guy's points for him.
To be fair to Video Guy, he says he has a G19, but never entirely draws his gat, so it's possible, if he has a custom 12" slide and barrel on that piece, that it points only at the car seat. (It would be an awkward draw at that point though, would it not?)
Otherwise, while making some solid points about better carry while driving in terms of prepping your personal battlespace, this is a great video how-to on how to attempt accidental castration under stress or by accident.
You watch the video, and you decide.
I had also noted
"We won't even talk about where that IWB is digging into you all shift" - AesopGarnering in response
"Oh, please, Aesop! I've driven on I don't know how many all-day-long cross-country roadtrips with a strong-side IWB holster. IND-to-ATL, IND-to-MSY, IND-to-OKC, IND-to-ABQ, IND-to-FOE, and that's just in the last couple years, and not counting shorter ones to TN or OH... Make sure you don't buy crappy belts and holsters and that they fit properly." - TamNoted, Tam. I don't buy crappy belts and holsters, and yet in some, even many vehicles, IWB simply doesn't work if you want accessibility and comfort. Comfortable is generally less-than-ideal for accessibility, and accessibility runs less-than-ideal for comfort. There are hundreds of makes and models of cars, and 100M weapons owners, probably something approaching 10M of whom carry concealed or open in vehicles.
So yet again, I'm going with the notion that for any number of combinations of them, they might be built differently than me, or Tam, and find other options than belt carry a better fit, unless they're willing to give up one or the other attributes, if not both. Including the drop-leg originally profiled. As opposed to "dumber than an acre of fungus, dude."
But the real poser was a video linked in her response, which post and embedded video you'll have to watch there to see. Please, do.
First, mad props to any school working inside a vehicle, even briefly, but let's be fair.
1) It's a junker for shooting training, so no seatbelts used nor trained with.
2) The tussle portrayed is great for a shooter inside your vehicle, in the passenger seat.
For someone in the back seat, or outside the car, again, not so much.
3) I watched it several times, and have yet to see Tam (in the driver seat, evidently) draw anything from anywhere to prove her point about her car seat draw. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't, but damned if I could see anything like. I saw her wrestle with a passenger for his gun on his left side, so if you're a cop, your partner is a southpaw, and he decides to cap you, and while you were unarmed, that video would come in real handy. But I didn't see her draw anything from anywhere at any time.
Anyone, watch it yourself, and feel free to tell me where she drew a weapon, when, and from where.
Otherwise, the takeaway seems to be to practice taking the gun away from the bad guy, because you didn't bring one...? Whatever. I'm stumped.
And then, what I assume was supposed to be the rhetorical kill-shot:
"Now mime moving your hand backward from the holster like you're trying to draw the pistol. What happens to your elbow? Hits the seat before the muzzle is even clear, doesn't it?1) Looking at the drop-leg in the OP, my draw stroke wouldn't be so deep and straight back that my elbow would be impeded by anything. I'm not getting my wallet out of my pants pocket, I'm pulling a compact pistol out of a holster that's already halfway down my thigh.
Can you see why dudes who were issued dropleg Safarilands would use vest mounted holsters for mounted patrols?" - Tam
2) And exactly as noted in comments to my post, my shoulder, elbow, and wrist all cleverly pivot and rotate, as OEM equipment, to allow me to pull and draw a pistol on my mid-thigh with minimal muss and fuss. Not so much for a Desert Eagle or a custom long-slide .45 auto from The Terminator
but no problem at all for an LCP, a G19/26/30, a PPK, or any number of short-barreled revolvers. Problem non-existent. Maybe it might be worse if you're tall and riding in a sports car with wrap-around bucket seats (paging Tam), but for average me in a pickup truck, no trouble at all. Which only goes to prove my point, yet again, that YMMV, and there's a lot of ways to do some things in a world full of variables.
3) Of course I can see why a vest-mounted holster would be better than a drop-leg Safariland for mounted patrols. Which is nice if we're talking about someone doing a mounted patrol, or where anyone is issued that sort of gear.
I don't know how they do things in Indiana, but around here, Lyft, Uber, Yellow Cab, the trucking companies, and the pizza delivery shops don't usually issue load-bearing vests or holsters at all. So that's not really a very good point, is it?
(It might be more applicable in Chicongo or Baltimore, but hereabouts, not so much. )
So once again, getting something comfortable and accessible without going all Tactical Timmy is probably a bit better choice for Joe Average.
Which makes a dropleg holster, like the one pictured, not-so-dumb for a pretty notable demographic among the population who carries a weapon for protection, as opposed to issued for duty. Not necessarily the only choice, best choice, my choice, or yours, but for a non-zero number of others, probably very non-dumb.
That was all I said then, and Tam's reply does absolutely nothing to make any points at all that it's anything different now.
She's away this week, so I hope she enjoys the SHOT Show, whether she sees this or not.
I suspect we can both agree that that's always a fun week.