Thursday, July 1, 2021

When Your False Dichotomy Hits Reality

 














Sorry, kids. But gainsaying your fantasies and calling it reasoning just doesn't cut it where the rubber meets the road.

And while you're up, let us know: was the murder rate lower back when we hung the offenders straightaway, or now, given that we've virtually eliminated capital punishment, and substituted a timeout in prison lasting from 5-100 years?

Show all work.



14 comments:

5stonegames said...

Drug use or even Drug Dealing is not homicide. They are completely different offenses.

Also where precisely are you going to find enough hard men to fight your war on drugs?

You know as well as anyone that it works like this, Plata O Plomo.

Officer Safety is going to take his cartel silver and go home. If he is reluctant, finding one of his fellow officers in a cartel burn barrel will change his mind. If that doesn't work? Family members.

And beyond that, even masked Special Police haven't helped Mexico . They just capture a couple and torture the name of his coworkers out of him. I suppose you could go G,I. Joe and have only code names but I'm sure that will go well.

Cooperation will stop after the same leverage is applied to political officials.

If you think that you can use the military, well maybe. Just don't be surprised when cops hit the wrong house (happened to my neighbor) or the military "special unit" is loosed to take away your firearms to "disarm cartels"

You want a real drug war? Take political power, seal the border, nothing in nothing out for decades and have a population and political class willing to suffer a guerilla insurgency that last for many decades, costs trillions and kills millions.

Our political class crapped their pants about some idiots taking selfies in the House. They are not up for it.

Even so you still won't beat ditch weed, all that takes is a seed and some soil but you can deal away with hard drugs and GMO weed, some at least. If you can get power that is.

Oh a last bit, you cannot invade Latin America.They outnumber us and while they are no fonder of drugs than we are, will not be ruled by idiot gringos.

We also have 30+ million Latinos here who get a say and its going to be "No and Hell No."

If we are willing to cut off trade, secure our borders and such we can deal with hard drugs . Hell execute the Facklers if the law allows but the only way to win is not to play, Deal with the misery index in this nation and drug use will decline enough to win .

And yes you can execute some people if you can get anyone to do it. You probably can't though. No one will sell us anything if we use it for the death penalty and we don't make it.

There is a reason we don't do firing squads or the noose instead, No one wants to pull the trigger or lever.

Locking scum up works well enough anyway.

Aesop said...

Drug use or even Drug Dealing is not homicide. They are completely different offenses.
Thanks for conceding that they are indeed all offenses.

Also where precisely are you going to find enough hard men to fight your war on drugs?
One or more will be sufficient, provided they agree not to take prisoners.

You know as well as anyone that it works like this, Plata O Plomo.

Officer Safety is going to take his cartel silver and go home. If he is reluctant, finding one of his fellow officers in a cartel burn barrel will change his mind. If that doesn't work? Family members.

And beyond that, even masked Special Police haven't helped Mexico . They just capture a couple and torture the name of his coworkers out of him. I suppose you could go G,I. Joe and have only code names but I'm sure that will go well.

That's only true in kleptocracies, like anywhere south of Brownsville. In an actual republic, the guy who says "plomo o plata" gets strung up. Then you go after all his friends, associates, and his family.

Cooperation will stop after the same leverage is applied to political officials.
We're there already. If they were serious, we could have stopped drug smuggling overnight, any time in the last 50 years.

If you think that you can use the military, well maybe. Just don't be surprised when cops hit the wrong house (happened to my neighbor) or the military "special unit" is loosed to take away your firearms to "disarm cartels"
I wouldn't be using the police like a military, and I wouldn't be using the military like police. Each one sucks at the other's job, and always will. The carpet-bombing could and would start in Tijuana, and work south.

You want a real drug war? Take political power, seal the border, nothing in nothing out for decades and have a population and political class willing to suffer a guerilla insurgency that last for many decades, costs trillions and kills millions.
Uh huh. You presume I'd give a shit about their Shitholia/Trashcanistan countries, or their casualty rate. The ones left over afterwards would find running a country without the narco-cartels far easier.
FTR, how did a "guerrilla insurgency that last for many decades" work out for Carthage after the Third Punic War? Funny how well a republic works in its own interest when it's well-run, i'n'it?


Our political class crapped their pants about some idiots taking selfies in the House. They are not up for it.
Bingo. Now you're getting the idea.
(cont.)

Aesop said...

(cont.)
Even so you still won't beat ditch weed, all that takes is a seed and some soil but you can deal away with hard drugs and GMO weed, some at least. If you can get power that is.
Two for two. You're on a roll. Ditch weed was never the problem legalized pot is, let alone everything else that follows pot once the floodgates are opened.

Oh a last bit, you cannot invade Latin America. They outnumber us and while they are no fonder of drugs than we are, will not be ruled by idiot gringos.
Hernan Cortes begs to dispute your contention. I have no intention of ruling them. I would remove them southwards until they were no longer a problem. The buffer remaining afterwards would make the DMZ in Korea look like a church picnic site, and much like Frenchman's Flats in Nevada, nothing larger than insects would inhabit the region for decades, if not centuries. No prisoners, no refugees, just simple removal. Bonus: If we go south far enough, we can dig another canal, make it big enough to put the other one out of business, and keep this one in perpetuity.

We also have 30+ million Latinos here who get a say and its going to be "No and Hell No."
The legal and law-abiding would rise up and cheer. The rest can be deported, or go up against a wall. Dealer's choice. ZFG

If we are willing to cut off trade, secure our borders and such we can deal with hard drugs . Hell execute the Facklers if the law allows but the only way to win is not to play, Deal with the misery index in this nation and drug use will decline enough to win .
False. Drug use soars in boom times even more so than during busts. And addicts are addicts, and always will be. Let's stop catering to them, and start presenting them with the bill for their choices.

And yes you can execute some people if you can get anyone to do it. You probably can't though. No one will sell us anything if we use it for the death penalty and we don't make it.
Last I looked, the government manufactures nuclear weapons and artillery. A few liters of chemicals will present no problem whatsoever.

There is a reason we don't do firing squads or the noose instead, No one wants to pull the trigger or lever.
Demonstrably not so. The American people favor capital punishment, wholesale, coast to coast, including in the Blue hives, at 4 to 1 or better. If you took signups to pull the levers or pull the triggers, on the internet, the traffic would crash it for a month. The only people ;lacking the will are the political weasel class. As usual.
(cont.)

Aesop said...

(cont.)
Locking scum up works well enough anyway.
No, it doesn't.
1) They don't stay locked up.
2) They cost more money than they're worth (which is the price of one bullet).
3) Until prison is the Chateau D'If, where once sentenced, they lock you in a stone cell, solo, and slide a plate of food under your door twice a day until the day the stench emanating from within indicates you've permanently kicked your oxygen addiction, it's a country club, not a punishment.
Petty crimes should be a fine. Minor crimes a year or two, at most. Anything more serious should be forfeiture of your breathing privileges, permanently, and in haste. As much as the accused have the right to a speedy trial, the society has a right to expect speedy justice. "Justice delayed is justice denied" is true, but it cuts both ways, and it's long overdue that courts recognized this, and started executing people in batches to catch up to the backlog. The quicker we started a conga line to get convicts off of Death Row permanently, the quicker the line to get in would dwindle to a far more manageable annual tally. Such a solution also has the benefit of novelty, it never having been tried in over a century. It would also make it rapidly apparent that without the critical 1-2% at the bottom end of the gene pool, the faster 80-90% of all crime would dwindle to a trickle. If cartels wanted to volunteer to continue the experiment, welcome them with open arms, and party scaffolds from Brownsville to San Ysidro. Declare an actual war at sea and in the skies, shoot down the planes, sink the boats, and hang any recovered survivors from yardarms after military tribunals afloat. All of which is completely legal under not only U.S. law, but also international law, and has been for millennia. As an added bonus, endangered shark species would come roaring back as well. Win-win.

JT said...

Any liber-tardian who thinks that a seriously prosecuted War on Drugs "wouldn't work (tm)" hasn't cracked a book on either the Taliban or Mao's China's take on opium. Shoot the growers, shoot the dealers, shoot the users - the pool of scum, criminals, and derelicts dries up really quickly. And no, I wouldn't want to live in those places - I'd want to live in Aesop's paradise, where I compete with my fellow citizens of the Heritage American republic to either pull the trigger or sow the DMZ with mines, so that my children can live the life we were all promised.

Unknown said...

Aesop for President

bearcub7250 said...

Aesop +1

MagisterGreen said...

Oh I was waiting for the fisk on that comment, and it didn't disappoint.

Unknown said...

Aesop, can you please just be in charge of the illicit drug policy in America?

I am so tired of it, all the way around. I'm tired of paying for my medication while Narcan gets handed out for free. I'm tired of my state's sad commercials about how we have to help these poor drug users because it's not their fault that thier stupid choices ruined themselves and everyone else around them.

~Rhea

5stonegames said...

I won't argue with you intentions. I want hard drugs gone as much as you.

However as of 2021 we basically don't make the drugs needed for execution don't have the factories (sold to China) and no one will sell us the precursor agents if they think we'll eventually use them for execution.

This does mean a real risk no anesthetic for surgery as well. So trying to work around that is fraught with risk.

We probably could fix this is we could fix schools and put an end to anti science Leftism. Maybe.

We are also rapidly losing the ability to make nukes do to tritium supply issue and a lack of skills base. In less than twenty I suspect many of our nukes may well be a bluff.


Now to drugs, Ditch Weed is fine with me (and it easy to tell apart from the GMO shit) so are shrooms and other things that grow.

X, Special K and LSD should probably be legal. Probably.

The rest no.

And while yes the execution conga line did help in the 18th century, it might not work now, It can be difficult to get convictions in many areas hell it was during the bloody code (that's why they transported to Australia) so the justice simply isn't coming.

If you doubt me, ask Derek Chauvin how good justice is. Or Nicole Brown and Ron Goldma? Its political and if a community you don't control decides, not going to jail. Its not happening.

Its not hard for gangs and the like to decide to exert this control unless of course perpetual martial law is your sauce. We are not a homogeneous , moral nor religious people. Its all tribe all the time from here on out.

Best to deal with that as we slide into he 3rd world.

Now if things go very pear shaped , well maybe we can reverse this. My suggestion is you take all the run away Joes on the Right, the ones who won't exercise power and flog them for dereliction of duty.

Nature abhors a vacuum and if you don't take power and use it wisely, someone else will . All else flows from that.

For the nonce though it may not be the best option but its simpler to not execute people.

T said...

"However as of 2021 we basically don't make the drugs needed for execution..."

May I suggest heavy metal, injected at 3200 fps.

The Lonoke, Arkansas ammo plant is cranking out over 6 figures of .223/5.56 per day.

T said...

Additionally, if the High Times botanists can develop weed with 10 times the THC as weed had in the '80s, SURELY Monsanto can develop a blight/fungus that attacks only the coca plant.

Unknownsailor said...

You want to discuss how bad (read: politicized) justice is, talk about Mike Strickland, Kyle Rittenhouse, and now Daniel Perry, SSGT USA. All 3 were textbook cases of armed self defense against degenerate Democrat storm troopers, and Mike gets 5 years in Oregon, Kyle goes to trial this September, and Daniel just got indicted.

Notice a trend? Armed self defense against Democrat street soldiers is being legally lynched.

Trumpeter said...

Heck, just use confiscated Chinese Fentanyl as a lethal agent. It's free! The European's can't control it! If china wants to turn off the Fentanyl faucet, GREAT! We still have lots to use on legal injections.