Saturday, November 2, 2019

Low Hanging Fruit

h/t McThag

McThag is ecstatic that OK has joined the ranks of Constitutional Carry.

Color us more like cautiously optimistic, but far from convinced this is any wave of things to come.

OK is low-hanging fruit, and it still took until just now to pluck it.

Notably, they have not (AFAIK) suffered FL's (or Califrutopia's, once upon a time) surplus of attention-whoring jackasses taking their long arms to Burger King and the community fishing pier, just to provoke a predictable response, which underlines that pissing on the bear's head is probably not the best nor brightest way to march for your constitutional rights, even giving such shenanigans the most charitable review. (OK residents, feel free to let me know if that sort of nonsense has been going on there in the lead-up to this day, which I doubt.)

And if that happens now after the fact, and you piss off enough lawmakers, despite it being fully legal at the moment, see if that law doesn't get shifted right back in about a minute.

Let me know how that works when it's done everyday at the strip malls or diners there, rather than a one-time political rally, and get back to that topic.

Bear well in mind that OK also is the only solid red state in the U.S.  only one of two states in the U.S. (the other being WV) - that voted in every county -  for Trump in 2016.
49  48 other states: not so much.
You could look it up.

It, quite literally, won't play that well in Peoria.

IOW, this is the political equivalent of cheering getting polygamy accepted, because you got it passed in Utah, or outright communism, because it passed in Massholia. It is not the same thing as getting roast beef on the menu at the National Vegan Conference.

I'm always open to evidence, but the experiment in Florida is still an open question, as the recent proposed SB 634 (which I hope fails to pass there) in response to any number of OC incidents there demonstrates, and a single data point in OK is not a trend.

Fair enough?

It's a fine thing to be ahead at the Indy 500 in the first lap, or even the 16th.

But the Victory lap, last time we looked, only comes when you're ahead on the last lap.

I want Constitutional Carry to be the law nationwide.

But even should I live to see that glorious day, I still don't want to see fucktards toting their rifles to the mall on a regular basis, just because it's legal, contrary to walking around with their zippers open and hanging their junk out on display, which is mainly what this has been about since Day One for most of those nimrods.

Like Nazis marching through Skokie, there's legal and even Constitutionally protected, and there's sensible and appropriate, and one does not automatically convey the other, which was the point all along.

I don't want anyone's rights restricted, but I'd like to see general intelligence and responsible behavior exercised at something above the lowest common denominator, as a rule of thumb.
I'm certainly not anti-gun, but I'm rabidly anti-idiot and anti-jackass.

That shouldn't require an essay to explain, but apparently common sense, isn't.


Anonymous said...

Small town Oklahoma cop here. I haven't seen or heard of any "attention-whoring jackassery", and I hope it stays that way. Your closing line is unfortunately all too true...common sense apparently isn't. The silver lining is that means perpetual job security for us both.

FredLewers said...

By the map you posted it looks like west Virginia went solidly for Trump. I guess there's a lot to be said for the culling effect of low income, lack of opportunity and adversity in general.

Termite said...

"You are not getting stupid gun laws because of Bubba; you are getting stupid gun laws because criminals, mostly blacks, mostly with liberal voting habits - are committing violent crime with guns."
While we ARE getting some stupid gun laws because of that, it is not the WHOLE truth. While SOME of the "gun-grabbers" really do want to "end gun violence", that is only the upfront & honest ones.
There is no single reason, there are actually several reasons.

We are also getting more guns laws, or attempted gun laws, because there is a segment of the self-appointed "ruling class" who VERY MUCH wants the peasantry unarmed. Because "they" consider us to be ignorant, uncouth, serfs that needed to have most aspects of our lives controlled by "them", the American nomenklatura, the ruling class.

The American nomenklatura also don't really give a shit if welfare class blacks and Hispanics shoot each other; indeed, "they" are some of the most racist people you will meet......if you can get them in private, and they think you sympathize with their views.

What the American nomenklatura REALLY don't like is a formerly educated, middle/low upper class, fiscally & morally "conservative" citizen; ESPECIALLY if he/she is former military.

Anonymous said...

"Far as I’m concerned you’re no better than the gun grabbers."
This is an absurd statement. Advocating for good sense is NOT the same as supporting the Gun Grabbers.
I can't wait until some cretin packs a back-slung Raptor to a school board meeting. The next day there will be a Putsch to ban them.
It's stupid to draw attention to things that they can weaponize and throw at you.
In about '13 a half-wit bint named Heidi Yewman bought and carried a Glock without learning anything about gun handling or firearm safety just to prove that the law doesn't require intelligence or common sense to buy or own a gun. She is an idiot.
The clowns who pack an AK/AR into completely inappropriate places to prove a point are just as stupid as she was.

RandyGC said...

Yes, the major problem are statists that want to control the population because the plebes won't listen to their betters and support Utopia! And the ones with guns are the uppitiest peasants of all. The true believers and the power seekers.

Then there are the Useful Idiots.

Soccer moms with no interest in politics wanting only that (in their perception at least) their kids are safe and don't care how it is done are one group.

The Bubba's OCing long guns in Burger King just because they (for now) can are another group.

Rule One is still "don't scare the straights"

Bear Claw Chris Lapp said...

The caveats in the law are mind boggling. It doesn't say what the permits allow you to do but yes better than nothing except I doubt the law will ever be changed in the favor of people with common sense. Read about the opposition fight right up to midnight October 31.

Bear Claw Chris Lapp said...

To add to our good nature every county was RED in the prior two elections as well.

Grog said...

I'm not taking Filthie's side in this discussion, but Jeff Cooper also said common sense is what tells some people the earth is flat. Which is what you typed out in your reply, in more than a few words.

For your comment, "Just as self-defense is a natural law right that doesn't need a codified law to exist, so too is the morality and common sense of not being a public jackass with your shooting irons, even if the law hasn't been violated." This used to be identified as discretion, and it is a lost art with a lot of people, just like practical thinking.

Aesop said...


Common sense isn't what tells people the earth is flat.

You're mistaking dimwittedness for sense, though it is most assuredly common.

And contrary to popular mythology, the earth was known to be round as far back as the ancient Greeks, several of whom had notably calculated the exact circumference of our happy little sphere to within a few hundred miles of reality. The obvious truth of which was sailing vessels sailing a few miles past the horizon, going out of sight, and then returning, a feat which was observable with simple eyeballs for thousands of years before recoded history. Columbus, like most Europeans of the time, just wasn't aware of the intervening continents between Europe and Asia going westward.
That was the only surprise in the package.

The Dark Ages, OTOH, were not a legend, and are called "dark" for a reason.

red 3215 said...

Got here late, but it seems to me that you NEVER make yourself a target, which is what carrying a long gun openly in a non-tactical environment does.
So you think you made a point at the fast food place? What happens ten minutes later when three vibrants jump you in the parking lot, take your weapon, maybe kill you, and then go on a spree with your hard earned property.
And if you aren't dead, you get charged later as an accessory or with felony murder for enabling them?
Yeah, real bright.
Or just always have your concealed piece in case its needed and don't reveal unless necessary.

Reltney McFee said...

Dear Aesop: could the lack of concern for predominantly black-on-black crime, be because TPTB don't give anything more than symbolic shots about black folks?

Likely, you and I, among other proles, have done more to improve the lot of black folks, than all the pompous maroons who presume to lecture us. And who think they are entitled to rule is.

Jonathan H said...

Do you know if Oklahoma's law distinguishes between handguns and rifles/ long guns? I believe that some states do.
I believe there is a big difference between open carrying a pistol and open carrying a rifle and think that pressing the issue with pistols is much better than with rifles.

FYI, Alaska also went all for Trump - it is the first time any states have entirely gone for one candidate, let alone 3 states.

Grog said...

Good morning, Aesop. At the risk of starting an online argument and getting put in the same group as McThag and Filthie, what I did was share a comment that Cooper made about 30 years ago, I might even still have the Guns & Ammo magazine that the comment was in, I'd have to look for it.

Anonymous said...

Give it up. You are not going to convince Aesop OR ANY OF THE REST OF US with your blather from the good subjects point of view. You nitwits re-elected Trutard fer pity's sake!
Read and learn and quit taking our comment space.
Boat Guy

Anonymous said...

1) "...except I doubt the law will ever be changed in the favor of people with common sense."
That's because there aren't enough of them to base policy on.
2) "Got here late, but it seems to me that you NEVER make yourself a target, which is what carrying a long gun openly in a non-tactical environment does."
A totally new aspect of such Darwin Award level stupidity beyond just being an asshole. While I advocate for the right to OC (if for no other reason that I have to reach to the top shelf in the store or the wind may blow my shirt back) I realize that making it obvious I am armed would make me the 1st target should things turn ugly. Handgun OC is legal in WA State, so I could carry a full size sidearm with 20 rds on board. That doesn't make it a good idea though. I would much rather draw and surprise with 11 rds than absorb the 1st shots with 20 rds in the holster.

Termite said...

"Handgun OC is legal in WA State, so I could carry a full size sidearm with 20 rds on board. That doesn't make it a good idea though. I would much rather draw and surprise with 11 rds than absorb the 1st shots with 20 rds in the holster."

OC is legal in Louisiana, and has been since the 1800s. The theory then was that honest men don't hide their weapons, and ner-do-wells do.

However, I agree with your statement about making yourself a priority target. If a goblin decides to rob McDonald's, he won't see you OC-ing until he actually gets in the store. If he sees you before announcing, he may simply haul ass.
If he has already announced a stickup when he sees you OC-ing, chances are excellent he will shoot you immediately.

If you are CCWing, you can make the decision on whether to intercede or go along.

I like the odds of CCWing better.

Aesop said...

B'bye, Glen.

It was my mistake to feed the troll.
but you simply can't help being you.
You're done here.

Peddle your horseshit on your own blog.
Maybe if you tie a pork chop around its neck, the dog will play with it.

Aesop said...


You're in no danger of that.

I have no doubt Cooper said what you conveyed.
The problem with his musings over his sunset years is they were about half genius, and half horseshit.
And sometimes, it was difficult to tell one from the other right off.

Anonymous said...

I'm an alum of "Orange" Gunsite and concur, though I might quibble about the ratio. Cooper was an excellent writer but that really reflects his childhood teachers more than anything. California had amazing schools at one time.
And again, I'll own to OCing a sidearm when the weather is hot. I've had the discussion before. Most folks don't even notice.
Boat Guy

George True said...

When I was in college (about 45 years ago) I was friends with some of the cops in the college town I lived in then, which was Lawewnce, Kansas. I would occasionally do ride-alongs with one of them.

Back then, so-called 'constitutional carry' was legal there - I believe it still is. On one of those ride alongs I asked my friend (Mark) what would happen if I decided to walk down the main drag with a fully visible and holstered sidearm strapped to my hip, or my .30-30 Winchester Model 94 tucked under my arm. In so many words, Mark said that cops would certainly show up and have a few questions for me. If it was determined that I represented no threat to anyone in general or anyone in particular, then I would (probably) be allowed to go about my business.

My point is that nothing has changed in the last 50 years, even before all the gun control nonsense got ramped up over the last 20 years. Then as now, if you are visibly carrying a long gun, cops will be called and will show up to determine if you are a threat. Then as now, anyone carrying a long gun down the street or into a place of business in an urban or suburban area is going to be visited and questioned by cops to determine if there is an imminent threat to anyone. This is simply prudent policing, and has been for almost forever.

So anyone doing so is trying to make a political point, and they are ignorant of the dictates of prudent policing. They make a pain in the ass out of themselves for everyone. The cops have no choice but to respond and determine if there is an imminent threat to anyone. Until they ask a few questions, they have no way of knowing if the one carrying the long arm is on his way to commit some 'workplace violence', or just a citizen flexing his political muscles. In either case, that person is a doofus and a jackass.

The Gray Man said...

Florida is never going to pass CC, even if the open rifle carriers never OC a rifle again. We have Republicans running this state and they’re not interested in OC in any way, nor are they interested in any form of CC. Our Republicans will sooner restrict the carry permission we already have than expand it one bit. I’ve been fighting that battle for several years and have seen only regression. We actually voted out one thorn-in-our-side Democrat in the Florida Senate, and replaced him with TWO Republicans, and the problems got worse. Yeah. Worse.

Aesop said...

Yes, and the state's been purpling up nicely for twenty years to boot.
That would tend to argue against pubic displays of jackassery by gun owners, and in favor of not giving them reasons to revisit the carry issue, one of reasonable mind would think.