Thursday, March 28, 2019

In Case You're New To The Discussion

Remember the kid late to class, yet who always wanted to answer the question first?

"As the dems take control of the US they will disarm the reps. The dems will stack SCOTUS and translate the 2A to mean you are allowed muzzle loaders only.
The patriots in the US are not organized. No state militia, no national militia. Individuals won’t stand a chance. ‘Might makes right’ No organization = you are done when they send out the jackboots."
Yeah...not so much.

Most of us are up on our Solzhenitsyn:
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!"
And we're much better off than Alex was.

There are probably more deer hunters in just Penntucky and Michigan alone than the total number of local, state, and federal jackboots. Even if you spotted Team Antigunz the entire DoD, active, reserve, and NG, there are over 36M licensed hunters in the US. Even 10% of them outnumber the entire active US military at all but its Cold War peak.

As a legendary Swiss general noted once, the correct response would be to “shoot twice, and go home”. Confiscation would end about noon Tuesday, and then the real bloodbath would begin – at city hall, the statehouse, and ultimately, on scaffolds in D.C.

Because there are also about 150M gun owners. Most of whom, proving Hemingway’s maxim, don’t have hunting licenses, because “those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.

“They’re coming to take your guns” won’t work, as has only been noted about a thousand times by anyone who could pass fourth grade mathematics before Common Core.

That doesn’t mean they won’t try; it just means the outcome would unravel things in about an hour, and the next election after that would find the entire Congress solid [R], if not all hardcore freedomistas rather than the usual squishy hacks, there being few surviving [D]s to run at all.

Because most of the country, like most people who read and post here, have two settings:
1) Vote
2) Fuck it, kill every last one of them.

We move to #2 slowly, but it's nigh irrevocable once it happens, and unstoppable until we run out of targets. Which will happen long before we run out of ammunition.

This will not be the Alamo x 1000.
It will be Little Big Horn.
And this time, we get to be the Indians.

More than a few hereabouts are already wearing bibs every day to contain the drool at joy of such a prospect.
Most of the rest, while rather horrified, are quietly resolved on the inevitability of the coming bloodbath, and have their hipboots and bandoliers ready.

The internet moves pretty fast, but this is ten-year-old news.
Keep up, please.

And I didn't put the fish in the barrel, but am always happy to shoot them when I find them.


Anonymous said...

Lately I've been thinking about buying another black gun and convincing every BG owner to do the same. When SHTF there will probably be people I know and trust who want to join the movement but woke up too late to obtain one.

Numbers rule for all vital equipment: One is none. Two is one. Three is for me.

Q: When did Noah build the ark?

A: BEFORE the rain, Gladys. Before the rain.

Bear Claw Chris Lapp said...

I have always been Indian but that just makes it better.


Gotta hop on getting a few ghost guns myself.

I will not go to the camps quietly. I will not go at all.

SiGraybeard said...

Guys like this think not having a central organization is a bug not a feature. With no central command to drone, the .MIL, police and all have to go after all 30 million fighters one by one. Without having the 30 million introduce themselves the hard way.

Yeah, not having a general in charge could slow down the process, but the most important organization is local, local, local.

T-Rav said...

I've said this a couple times before, and I've also mentioned that I don't come from a "gun culture" myself, so maybe this is just me not having the right experience to know how things really are. If so, my apologies in advance.

But I don't think it's just a question of math. I mean, yeah, mathematically our side has the Gestapo pretty well outnumbered; but numbers only count for so much in war, and often for far less than willpower. In any action like this--even if the inciting incident is an out-in-the-open violation of the 2A--I can't imagine all 36 mil+ hunters and gun owners in the country are going to spontaneously rise up all at once. A much smaller number would have to get involved first, and then that would lift the mental "lid" or whatever for the rest to get in on it.

And my question has always been, is that initial minority willing to stick their necks out? Because if it's just a handful at first, I don't doubt the military and LEO have the clout to nail *them*. And they'd have to choose to suspend life as they knew it for at least a little while, rather than assume that someone else will go before them in getting their hands dirty. Let's face it, that's what a lot of people on sites like these are doing.

So, bottom line, and I mean this in all seriousness: Do you, Aesop, or whoever else, believe that if it comes to it, there will be the necessary number of people ready and willing to overcome the inertia of contemporary American life, go out there, and start knocking off Gestapo wannabes? Again, I know I'm not coming from the same background as other people here, who are more plugged into things than I am, but from my vantage point, I simply don't see that happening, at least not yet.

I think it would require a major event disrupting daily life to the point that people felt they had nothing to lose by going on the warpath in a literal sense. Because as things stand right now, most of us have A LOT to lose. And I don't believe enough people are prepared to put those aside as things now stand--not the combatants, not the people who would make up the infrastructure needed to support and shelter them for the time necessary.

15Fixer said...

T-Rav..... I'm one..... and I'll take point. The venerable Silicon Graybeard said it quite eloquently....
Guys like this think not having a central organization is a bug not a feature. With no central command to drone, the .MIL, police and all have to go after all 30 million fighters one by one. Without having the 30 million introduce themselves the hard way.

Yeah, not having a general in charge could slow down the process, but the most important organization is local, local, local.

I can visualize the orcs playing whack-a-mole and killing themselves from exhaustion..... hehehe... self-destructing by heart attack and stroke.......Karma

T-Rav said...

That's great. If from where you're standing, you're convinced that it is going to play out this way, then I'll rest a lot easier.

I guess my main thing is that, being a historian, I've read too many cases of military actions in the past where one side got screwed by overconfidence, and I don't want our own patriots to take that same road.

But like I say, I'm not as immersed in this stuff as Aesop and others are.

Tannhauser said...

The Dems , like Custer( who was a democrat ) , may find out far to late that a confederation of well armed citizens determined to maintain their freedom will indeed constitute a " well regulated militia" ! Hoka Hey!

AB.Prosper said...

FreeFor has trouble organizing both from OpFor disruption and from their own personalities and nature . After thw Tea Party got taken over and of course the Bundy Bunch Fiasco, everyone noped big organizations

So unless a hypothetical war drags on you won't see large groups other than a few already extant militias .Its going to be cells and units, WRSA's 15 men or maybe 2 Squads of 8 broken into pairs to prevent infiltration and being droned

A hypothetical idea.

Lets take say three guys who say did time together and can trust one another . Right now they can't legally have guns which is unconstitutional BTW but if guns are banned? Same Same right? They probably know where to get one or two

Now these guys are willing to do nasty stuff on a once in a while basis or hell just pull a job on OpFor and kick some resources down. They will will accomplish a lot more than a bunch of guys in uniforms lining up to get picked off

Its going to be that sort of war, no uniforms , no sides exactly and ti the knife until a fracture point happens and either FreeFor is utterly destroyed, the place is entirely on fire and becomes something else or FreeFor replaces OpFor

If this happens, we won't really be able to say it "that day" or "that event" or predict how long it will take. It could be mercifully short as our host thinks or drag on an on.

Now if we are smart and lucky we can avoid the whole thing, which all of us are working for even as we prepare for the worst . We do that we get back to you know being America, kick foreign trash out, get rid of the commie problem and build an economy where people feel they can afford kids

Old NFO said...

T-Rav look at what is happening in France with the Yellow Vests... No 'organization' behind them, so the .gov doesn't know whom to go after. It's now in its 19th week of protests, granted it is down from 200,000 people, but they have effectively shut down Paris with 'non-violent acts'. That should give you some idea of what could happen. I know for a fact that the sheriff here will not enforce that confiscation, and will not put his officers on the street to do so.

Aesop said...

Two knuckleheads tied Boston, and before that, D.C., into pretzel knots.
One Dorner had half the state of CA chasing their own tails for a week.

Now imagine even 10,000 non-idiots playing shoot-a-commie-for-mommie in 50 states.

Simple experiment.
You're blindfolded. Or, we just turn the lights off in the room.
I give you a pair of chopsticks.

Your job is to pluck out the popcorn as each kernel pops.
We turn the heat on.
Ready? Go!

So tell me, how many pieces does OPFOR catch before all the kernels have gone off?
Add as many players to their side as you like, and the outcome is the same.

36M or 150M gun owners don't have to radicalize all at once.
But every time there's another raid, the heat under the pan is increased.

So who wins, the guys with the chopsticks, or the kernels popping?

cf.: Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Ireland, Poland, Hungary, France, etc.

This absolutely a purely mathematical problem.

Try dividing 3M by 150M. Reduce to the maximum possible.
That's 50:1.
That means they have to whack opposition at a 50:1 ratio just to maintain parity.
And every time they hit one of the 150M innocent bystanders, they worsen their own odds.

And for every 60,000 of their guys they lose, an entire state goes free, forever.
Our side loses 60,000, and we only have 149.94M left. Or even only 35.94M.

There's no way to do that math and come out on top without recourse to the Underpants Gnome and fits of religious ecstasy.

It simply cannot be done.

And even their half-wits (which is 95% of them) know it.

When Martin Luther King Jr. nor Gandhi wanted open conflict with their respective oppressors, precisely because they could do math.

The current iteration of Leftards isn't even that bright.

James M Dakin said...

I've had serious concerns myself that gun owners would ever stop moving the line in the sand. But, things look pretty good for the following reason. The Statists are seeing another victory every time another blue area goes total gun ban. But what happens every time is that gun owners leave that area. The two sides are slowly being formed just on that one trend. Now the gun owners aren't as isolated inside enemy lines but closer to comrades. The Statists must invade our territory for confiscations. If you flee the Sanctuary States, you are increasing your odds even without formal teammates. In effect they are giving us time to flee to free areas, just with gun bans they couldn't wait on. Tipping their hand too soon.

Anonymous said...

I did some back of an envelope math on this awhile back. Using the most generous numbers for .mil and all forms of LE in this country, regardless of duty position/divided by the land mass of the lower 48 it maffed out to about one of them every 1.25 square miles. We used to call those "confidence targets."

Will said...

One factor that is only just being noticed is the lack of aggressiveness in the average cop. The lack of balls in the (Coward County) Lakeland, FL cops at that school shooting a year ago may be the new normal.
I attribute this to a self-inflicted hit by the Left back in the 90's. To be PC, the bureaucrats in high density areas (Dem controlled, mostly) decided to weed out gun culture people from police applicants. The result is that even the SWAT guys may not be gun people originally. This may have been offset somewhat by mandated hiring of vets, but not all of them were point of the spear types. Mostly that would be support positions.

I've seen this pathetic performance locally. Police arrived QUIETLY at a burglary-turned-home invasion, and just formed a perimeter (they claimed) to wait for them to exit. They caught one who fell into a pool, had to call a dog for the second, and totally overlooked the third who just walked away (video). (for those who understand why, kitchen knives were found in the yard).

MarkInKansas said...

I'm reminded of the people who felt compelled to answer the call to arms for the cattle rancher Bundy. That unorganized citizen militia stood down the troops of the U.S. Government. Those people were ready to return fire if the Government forces had started the dance.

Felix Bellator said...

Remember your Stalin, "Quantity has a quality all its own," and your Map, "All power derives from the barrel of a gun."

James M Dakin said, "The Statists are seeing another victory every time another blue area goes total gun ban."

That is a very good point. But, the compliance rate on the simple, easy things like registration in Connecticut has been very low. Blue is heavily enclaved and their Red Statesman are dispersed and behind the lines.

Think of the map of Trump voters versus Hillary voters. Islands of Blue in sea of Red. Now imagine ships of all sizes trying to sail from island to island when every dozen Red mermen runs a submarine loaded with torpedoes. Plus all the Red merfolk can walk on land and breathe air, looking exactly like the Blue Eloi.

McChuck said...

Every blue city will be a cross between Stalingrad, Sarajevo, and Detroit. Think East St. Louis on a bad day.

We have almost 200 million enemies. They won't all go quietly. If we end up with 120 million patriots when the smoke clears and the rubble stops bouncing, that will be a huge win.

For those who think you can't stop the cops - there are already "no go" areas all across America, where cops don't go in groups of less than 20, and only during daylight. Remember Cabrini Green.

Anonymous said...

Count me among the ", while rather horrified, are quietly resolved on the inevitability of the coming bloodbath, and have their hipboots and bandoliers ready. " Though hipboots don't provide enough ankle support. I'll just throw my boots away when we're done if they won't come clean. BTW the old "green" jungle boot would be very good; great traction when things get wet and slippery.
"Yeah, not having a general in charge could slow down the process..." beg to differ, depending greatly on the "General". I've been privileged to know some who could lead quite well, but for nearly all I've seen recently " not having a general in charge "would go in the plus column. All we need is "Commanders Intent" which come from knowing what the Founders wanted for us.
Boat Guy

Anonymous said...

Our numbers are much better than most realize.
It is my opinion, having many friends and family in law enforcement and military service, that the vast majority of them will simply refuse to enforce any kind of gun confiscation or permit excessive violence towards US citizens.
They will quit and go home, bringing with them an intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the organizations they just left.
Those numbnuts that remain will be the dumb ones, and after they start seeing their comrades heads literally explode will most likely run and hide while crying "I ain't gettin paid enough for this shit"
50:1 ?
More like 500:1


I'm pulling from ancient memory, but... IIRC in the first Civil War battles, Washington DC socialites went out for picnics to see the battles almost like a sporting event. They fully expected to see the "uncouth rabble South" routed in splendid sport.

Didn't happen.

I see echoes of this in the blue-staters poo-pooing a resistance to their Philosopher-King rule.

First, their power will go out. No more water, no more refrigeration, no more heat / cooling. Within days of that, the two-legged predators already nesting with them will start to emerge.

Second, rather obviously, no more food deliveries. Starve you f*ckers.

Third, many cities have vast tracts of single-family wooden structure homes. You think about a windy day and, well, I don't need to say it.

I've talked with a few Leftards who say "Well, we'll just invite the UN to send troops in". Really? REALLY? Even a middle of the road person would, I think, take serious exception to, say, Russian troops on American soil.

DAN III said...


You cannot execute an "L" ambush with only one, armed Patriot.

weaselkeeper said...

Something as simple as a pair of side cutters in your pocket, stop to tie your shoe, and govt vehicle A has a tire stem cut, walk on.

It's not all about running gun battles in the street, or 350+yd shots at the triangle.

Anonymous said...


Ah, yes the old UN troop threat by the statists. Whenever I hear that I double over laughing.
The UN must be the most inept, incompetent, corrupt force in the world. If they were any good, they would be kept in house for the defense of their own countries.
Even the UN wouldn't dare send thousands of their troops to slaughter.



If you're an automotive mechanic, take a hard awl, and make a deep indentation into the drive and/or axle shafts. Then cover it up and let metal fatigue do the work. It might take a while before the effects show, but done spottily and carefully, a lot of vehicles can be damaged like that. Same thing with the power cam shaft if engine access is feasible.

AB.Prosper said...

The only nation that poses a threat to teh US and whose troops could occupy the place for any length of time is China.

However unless they use bioweapons first and the US cannot retaliate if our nukes are degraded , the cost of occupation and of trying to maintain a food supply and pay the troops would become prohibitive

Pacification would require roughly 50 million troops and there is no nation that handle that cost

Also UN troops if they lose the war but the nation that sent them in the cross-hairs of a revolutionary movement who is lusting for revenge and might have access to nukes.

Also there really isn't money for that, if the US goes to war with itself , the UN budget will be too low for any kind of serious ops, again the caveat being China and they won't have the US as a market at that point

In essence the globe would be in a depression and this makes military operations against the most heavily armed civilian populace on the planet far too costly

My guess is that in such a scenario, China will gran Taiwan and a few other areas, a few other nations will grab land and everyone else will be wondering what to do when a market of 300 million 1st world consumers just stopped being open

Anonymous said...

Don't forget, the brake-can on the driver's-side rear axle stops an oversize Rocket Stove... errr... Bearcat armored vehicle.

Dan said...

In 2018 alone over 1700 "red flag law" seizure orders have been issued with ZERO dead cops or politicians in response to these crimes. It's pretty damn obvious that they WILL disarm us one at a time....and do it without ANY RISK to themselves or their grasp on power. Expect EVERY state to pass "red flag laws".....followed by a nationwide Federal version. Then we will see siezures skyrocket. And since THEY are well organized and gun owners are not THEY WILL WIN.

Mike Hendrix said...

"Because most of the country, like most people who read and post here, have two settings:
1) Vote
2) Fuck it, kill every last one of them."

See, that's the part they never have been able to grasp. They assume we're all just like them and would do as they would: when ordered to do something by Big Mama Gubmint, why, of course you just do it. As long as it's for the Greater Good, that is. Or Teh Children.

AB.Prosper said...

Red Flag laws are unconstitutional thus far these have not been political but mentally ill people who probably should not have guns and felons/and domestic abuser again who are prohibited again unconstitutional but not liable to cause an uproar

I'll even say as for mentally ill people, adjudicated properly, a case can be made for taking weapons from someone who is near to harming others . I think such laws need to go for slippery slope reasons but delusional nutters should not have firearms and should be in a bin or under management and care

The risk of of misuse which is a valid one

Now if guns are taken in scale for political ones, we'll see what the results are, probably quite a few people killed by cops like that guy in Maryland till someone decides to retaliate which will be unpleasant for all.

In any case instead of dispensing black pills and I've seen to far many of them of late, shut up and grow a set

Learn to network with other people like you and stop fucking worrying abut guns, gun laws and the rest . There are more than enough with twenty million being taken much less 1700 to fight a war

Unless you have a lot of hard friends willing to work with you or are willing to solo ops, they are as useless as tits on a boar hog .

Right now a few odd mentally ill people or felons losing some guns means shit and assuming that people who can't even talk to the neighbors are ready to go Wolverines is ridiculous

Its not near stage two yet and to be frank if we can't trust each other take a bullet or to eat one in order to avoid torture than you aren't ready for civil war or fuck going Dorner for that matter

Get hard, get good and stop complaining.

Anonymous said...

That quote from Hemingway always makes me think about a Nam Vet buddy of mine. I was taking the kids out to do a little target practice and invited him to come along. His reply? "Nah, it ain't no fun when the targets don't shoot back."

Anonymous said...

What's the difference between a scoped hunting rifle and a sniper rifle?

A Texan said...

WRT red flag laws, one day "they" are going to take the papered guns of the wrong guy, possibly imprisoning him for a time, destroying a bunch of his property, and otherwise inconveniencing him and making his life miserable. He'll have been trained well by Uncle at some point earlier in his life, and have been smart enough, over the years, to have put away some unpapered guns and ammo in a secure location (with a real friend or relative, or buried/hidden somewhere). When he finds out who it was that caused that red flag operation, that person will be gone. Then this wrong guy will start taking out his righteous hostility on those who gave the orders and carried them out.

This will likely not happen next week, but I venture to say that within a couple of years it most definitely will. After that happens several times in several locations across the country, let's see how many people want to go on these raids.

Anonymous said...

They typically only send out 12 on a team and not all men thanks to the new politically correct addition of woman officers . One used propane tank wrapped in nail gun bandalieros and primed with a Home Depot bottle of oxygen and the team is gone . It won't take long for the word to get out and the number of willing orcs to decline orders of usurpation . Ever had burning nails up your vagina ?

scruff said...

I regret they only have one life to give to my country.

Anonymous said...

I apologize if anyone has already mentioned this, but most LEO's would probably not participate in a mass gun confiscation. I have been a LEO for 21 years for a medium sized department in AZ, and I can tell you that the majority of the officers in my department would refuse to partake (myself included). As a matter of fact I would join the resistance. I take my oath to protect the Constitution very seriously.

Robohobo said...


Here why gun confiscation is more difficult than you can imagine:

The Mathematics of Countering Tyranny

There is way more of us than them.

Anonymous said...

I have often thought about some of these scenarios. Some of the things I think about is. How will I know who the enemy is, if and when the time comes? Are we going to be shooting at each other? without some form of identification to see who's who? Seems to me there needs to be some kind of organization. I'm ALL IN to clean this country up. When the time comes, I'll be there! You are right. There are millions of hunters and gun owners in this country. But our country is vast from sea to shining sea! It seems to me that at some point after cleaning up our local areas and organizing, there needs to be a way to unite. Because without uniting in some way and organize resources. We will be killing our own for the few resources that will be left after the complete shutdown
of our economy. The reboot will take time and most might find themselves holding a hoe in a garden than looking for the vermin that have infested and are destroying our country, from the inside! When will the call come? how will it come? who will it be? and from where?

Anonymous said...


I would refer you to the Bundy standoff as evidence that yes, people will come.