Give a holler when Musk recants, unreservedly, and retracts every word of his horseshit. If he wants to "fix" the H1B program, it should be the first idiot idea on the chopping block, with an oak stake driven through its heart, and a clove of garlic in its mouth. Until then, it's just boob bait for the Bubbas. The story is off the radar because no one gives a wet fart about a dead president, except as cover for a live global replacement agenda. Stick your head in the sand in haste, repent at leisure.
Sorry, Aesop, we'll have to disagree on this one, my friend. The problem with H1B visas is the abuse, not the core concept. Abuses can and should be cured.
Not only would the US not be in its commanding position today in so many technology fields, such as SpaceX, our very entry into space exploration would have been hamstrung and retarded had we not used a H1B-like program that followed WWII. Both the US and the Soviet Union saw the need to import as many German "rocket scientists" as possible to improve chances in the space race. Spoiler alert: the US won.
Imagine the world if the Soviets, via Werner von Braun and his associates had been barred from entering the US. We "graciously" ignored their Nazi affiliations "for the good of the country" and, as a result, the US space program received a giant boost toward supremacy, even if it did lag behind Soviet efforts for years. Had we been merely following in the footsteps of the Soviets at every stage, the Soviet propaganda victory on the world stage of the Cold War would have been devastating as Second and Third World countries chose sides. The technical innovations in a great many collateral areas would have lagged far behind for years. Even then, they would likely have been American copies of Soviet designs.
Way too many Americans seek degrees in Gender Studies, Sociology, and Theater Arts today. A wealth of knowledge about 15th-century Italian LBGT poetry does little to advance the country's place in the world. Given the dearth of Americans who are interested in STEM careers (admittedly, I was one) it would be a serious mistake not to draw on the talents of "wannabe Americans" who can help maintain American technological supremacy in a wide range of applications.
Obviously, hotel management ain't one of those applications, but don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
Throw out the baby with the bathwater. It's an entire camel snuck under for the sake of the nose. If you need a foreign expert, sponsor them for immigration, and require them to apply for permanent citizenship. Seven years later, they can be hired, and bring their immediate family. Not before. Anyone with less than a 150 IQ should be automatically ineligible for the program. The test should be proctored by the UAW and the Teamsters. Anyone unwilling to go along with that can self-deport, or fuck themselves in the face with a chainsaw. Dealer's choice. Von Braun didn't displace American workers. he created a host of other industries.
H1B was being used in my field in the 1990s to bring in Filipina nurses by the motherfucking planeload. I couldn't get a job for five years after nursing school because of the glut of foreign grads who'd work for 80¢ on the dollar to what American nurses wanted. My hospital now, 30 years later, looks like Noah's Ark.
Way too many Americans don't bother to get STEM degrees, because they know that Rajeesh or Wang is going to be hired instead of them, and fast-tracked up to the limit of the glass ceiling. Bill and Steve don't have a chance in hell. They know this because their dad, the engineer, is on his fifth career already, and trying to make it to retirement with a full time job that doesn't require him to wear an apron and a paper hat.
You're looking at the elephant's tail, and missing the elephant in the room.
Gents, Aesop is on the money in regards to this argument. There is 2 reasons for the H1b deal, one of which is to bring the best and brightest to work for the US. The other is to bring the scab labor in. As for reason #1, that's fine, but #2 is the rule, not the exception.
Simpler solution Aesop. Shitcan the H1-B program. Using the current standards with zero modifications (and perhaps additional safeguards) use the O-1A visa program. That program is specifically for the “best and brightest.” I see your point about making them apply for permanent residency and the inbuilt asspain that would weed out the dipshits.
The fact that O-1A exists, proves that H-1B was never intended for the best and brightest, but rather a ruse to replace Americans in their own country, which is a Uniparty wet dream.
Aesop, so you're saying that you're willing to discuss reforming the program, right?
"Way too many Americans don't bother to get STEM degrees, because they know that Rajeesh or Wang is going to be hired instead of them..." I'm pretty sure that there is no empirical data to support that proposition. If so, I would be happy to see it.
The fact is that, as American education has been dumbed down over the last few decades with "feelings" getting more attention than "reading, writing, and 'rithmetic."
Fewer Americans have the foundation coming out of high school to even tackle the hard sciences. Take California, for instance. Its primary and secondary education system was the gold standard when I was a kid. The last time I looked, it was 46th in the country. That's just one canary-in-the-coal-mind example of what has been going on nationally. National SAT scores have also dropped. Because of almost unlimited illegal immigration we're taking too many Third World rejects in, and the great majority simply do not have the genetic makeup or the culture to perform at high academic levels.
There was a hue and cry in the last couple of years about AI taking over the world. There was talk about putting strict limits on its use. Then some observers pointed out that if the US did not lead the way with AI, China would. (Gulp!) Just the impact on national defense could be extraordinarily alarming. I've noticed that many are still very cautious (with good reason) about its use, but there seems to be much less feverish opposition to AI now.
As I said, use H1B in a reformed manner. It shouldn't be used except for industries where it is absolutely needed to keep the US competitive, and not as a cheaper source of labor. Without the "best and brightest" with special visas, the US will likely begin to fade as a leader.
We can start off with reforms by giving college students financial incentives to study STEM sciences but, if we're honest, that is going to take a considerable amount of time to make much of a difference.
The decline of STEM is chicken and egg. It's a programmed failure, by design.
As noted by others, the existence of the O-1A program proves that the H-1B program was never actually needed, nor ever intended to be followed according to the selling points, and was thus simply a means to effect a naked and large-scale chicanery. It was designed to b subverted, exactly as it has been.
Like much of current government, it needs to be reformed into non-existence. The Wailing Wall over that should be closed until the UC system (and every other state college system in the U.S.) has <2% foreign students, and 98% U.S. citizens again.
We could end all immigration, of all types, tomorrow, and the U.S would thrive and prosper, including industries long dormant.
The only economy that would suffer would be those countries where the H-1B wetbacks could no longer ship 75% of their paychecks back to their home country.
The proof of the pudding is this: require that for every immigrant admitted on an H-1B visa, one congressweasel had to be fired, and replaced by someone imported from Shitholia or Trashcanistan. (If we're going to elect crooks, we might as well get them for half price, right?) That move would cap the number of H-1B visas at 0, in perpetuity, in about 0.2 seconds. As it should be forever.
How far up your arse is your head?? My mother said that after WW2, they brought Germans in by the car load. Not scientists, or Wonderkins......women who they thought were "more glamorous" to the Beverly Hills shops and fired the American women who had worked there since the late '30s. As far as Aesop mentioning the Filipinas......in the '80s they also imported tons of Chinese, Iranian, UK, and Australian nurses who would, of course work for less and demand less. There were plenty of American nurses-fully qualified or just out of training, who could not find a job. THEY wanted real wages and benefits, the others wanted a Green Card. Or a rich American husband. The whole program is a scam of major proportion.
Here's a study supporting the statements around H1-B's being paid less for the same work, that the program is a scam and who the culprit companies are. Hint: Indian recruitment companies operating in the USA. Via CFP yesterday:
30 years ago, a neighbor in New Orleans, a Scot, was fighting for years to apply for citizenship, as a tech expert in deep sea ROV. A Masters degree mechanical engineer, who designed, built, and operated ROVs for the oil industry, and the only one who actually understood the systems he built, he was repeatedly excluded because he would take an American job. One that he continued to do as a legal resident with a work visa. Actually, I think that he was kept out because he was White and conservative, as was his wife and kids. John in Indy
Not counting the news outlets or websites along the full range of accuracy and veracity, I follow multiple actual individuals' handwritten blogs. (Bot news aggregators don't thrill me.) Looking them over, many are current serving or former military and a couple are some variation of high-speed low-drag elite forces ninjas. Or just funny as all. Because life without humor is just despair. So in other words, the same folks I trusted in the military not to wet the bed, sh*t themselves, or otherwise run around like headless Nancys, are the same folks I trust on the interwebz, for demonstrating pretty much the same trustworthiness and circumspectly responsible behavior. Color me shocked.
Comments are fully moderated, due to idiots and trolls. Grown up discussion here will appear just as soon as I have the time to push it through. ANONYMOUS UNSIGNED COMMENTS WILL BE AUTO-DELETED WITHOUT MERCY, and the url added to the spam filter, or mercilessly mocked at the bloghost's sole discretion. If you're too chickensh*t to come up with an alias for online purposes, you're not tall enough for this blog. Pick a name, and stick with it, and you're good. Get cute, and you're wasting your time and my electrons, and your masterpiece will never see the light of day. No warning shots will be fired. If you can't maintain decorum and polite behavior, I won't toy with you, I'll squash you. If one of your comments disappears, YOU f**ked up. If all of them do, it's time for you to go. Disagree with the points made, on the merits, and you're good. Go after me personally, or other commenters, and your comment will never see daylight here. My tolerance for skirting the line is at absolute zero, and will remain there. Don't f**k up.
14 comments:
You're a good half week behind the curve. Musk has changed his tune. He now wants to help straighten out H1-B.
Note also Fake News is so busy eulogizing Bucketmouth, the H1-B story is off the radar. Let it stay that way.
Give a holler when Musk recants, unreservedly, and retracts every word of his horseshit.
If he wants to "fix" the H1B program, it should be the first idiot idea on the chopping block, with an oak stake driven through its heart, and a clove of garlic in its mouth.
Until then, it's just boob bait for the Bubbas.
The story is off the radar because no one gives a wet fart about a dead president, except as cover for a live global replacement agenda.
Stick your head in the sand in haste, repent at leisure.
Sorry, Aesop, we'll have to disagree on this one, my friend. The problem with H1B visas is the abuse, not the core concept. Abuses can and should be cured.
Not only would the US not be in its commanding position today in so many technology fields, such as SpaceX, our very entry into space exploration would have been hamstrung and retarded had we not used a H1B-like program that followed WWII. Both the US and the Soviet Union saw the need to import as many German "rocket scientists" as possible to improve chances in the space race. Spoiler alert: the US won.
Imagine the world if the Soviets, via Werner von Braun and his associates had been barred from entering the US. We "graciously" ignored their Nazi affiliations "for the good of the country" and, as a result, the US space program received a giant boost toward supremacy, even if it did lag behind Soviet efforts for years. Had we been merely following in the footsteps of the Soviets at every stage, the Soviet propaganda victory on the world stage of the Cold War would have been devastating as Second and Third World countries chose sides. The technical innovations in a great many collateral areas would have lagged far behind for years. Even then, they would likely have been American copies of Soviet designs.
Way too many Americans seek degrees in Gender Studies, Sociology, and Theater Arts today. A wealth of knowledge about 15th-century Italian LBGT poetry does little to advance the country's place in the world. Given the dearth of Americans who are interested in STEM careers (admittedly, I was one) it would be a serious mistake not to draw on the talents of "wannabe Americans" who can help maintain American technological supremacy in a wide range of applications.
Obviously, hotel management ain't one of those applications, but don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
You have a certain gift, I'll give you that...
Throw out the baby with the bathwater. It's an entire camel snuck under for the sake of the nose.
If you need a foreign expert, sponsor them for immigration, and require them to apply for permanent citizenship. Seven years later, they can be hired, and bring their immediate family. Not before.
Anyone with less than a 150 IQ should be automatically ineligible for the program.
The test should be proctored by the UAW and the Teamsters.
Anyone unwilling to go along with that can self-deport, or fuck themselves in the face with a chainsaw. Dealer's choice.
Von Braun didn't displace American workers. he created a host of other industries.
H1B was being used in my field in the 1990s to bring in Filipina nurses by the motherfucking planeload. I couldn't get a job for five years after nursing school because of the glut of foreign grads who'd work for 80¢ on the dollar to what American nurses wanted. My hospital now, 30 years later, looks like Noah's Ark.
Way too many Americans don't bother to get STEM degrees, because they know that Rajeesh or Wang is going to be hired instead of them, and fast-tracked up to the limit of the glass ceiling. Bill and Steve don't have a chance in hell.
They know this because their dad, the engineer, is on his fifth career already, and trying to make it to retirement with a full time job that doesn't require him to wear an apron and a paper hat.
You're looking at the elephant's tail, and missing the elephant in the room.
Gents, Aesop is on the money in regards to this argument. There is 2 reasons for the H1b deal, one of which is to bring the best and brightest to work for the US. The other is to bring the scab labor in. As for reason #1, that's fine, but #2 is the rule, not the exception.
Tom762
Simpler solution Aesop. Shitcan the H1-B program. Using the current standards with zero modifications (and perhaps additional safeguards) use the O-1A visa program. That program is specifically for the “best and brightest.” I see your point about making them apply for permanent residency and the inbuilt asspain that would weed out the dipshits.
Program:
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/o-1-visa-individuals-with-extraordinary-ability-or-achievement
Criteria:
https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-2-part-m-chapter-4#3
The fact that O-1A exists, proves that H-1B was never intended for the best and brightest, but rather a ruse to replace Americans in their own country, which is a Uniparty wet dream.
Aesop, so you're saying that you're willing to discuss reforming the program, right?
"Way too many Americans don't bother to get STEM degrees, because they know that Rajeesh or Wang is going to be hired instead of them..." I'm pretty sure that there is no empirical data to support that proposition. If so, I would be happy to see it.
The fact is that, as American education has been dumbed down over the last few decades with "feelings" getting more attention than "reading, writing, and 'rithmetic."
Fewer Americans have the foundation coming out of high school to even tackle the hard sciences. Take California, for instance. Its primary and secondary education system was the gold standard when I was a kid. The last time I looked, it was 46th in the country. That's just one canary-in-the-coal-mind example of what has been going on nationally. National SAT scores have also dropped. Because of almost unlimited illegal immigration we're taking too many Third World rejects in, and the great majority simply do not have the genetic makeup or the culture to perform at high academic levels.
There was a hue and cry in the last couple of years about AI taking over the world. There was talk about putting strict limits on its use. Then some observers pointed out that if the US did not lead the way with AI, China would. (Gulp!) Just the impact on national defense could be extraordinarily alarming. I've noticed that many are still very cautious (with good reason) about its use, but there seems to be much less feverish opposition to AI now.
As I said, use H1B in a reformed manner. It shouldn't be used except for industries where it is absolutely needed to keep the US competitive, and not as a cheaper source of labor. Without the "best and brightest" with special visas, the US will likely begin to fade as a leader.
We can start off with reforms by giving college students financial incentives to study STEM sciences but, if we're honest, that is going to take a considerable amount of time to make much of a difference.
The decline of STEM is chicken and egg.
It's a programmed failure, by design.
As noted by others, the existence of the O-1A program proves that the H-1B program was never actually needed, nor ever intended to be followed according to the selling points, and was thus simply a means to effect a naked and large-scale chicanery. It was designed to b subverted, exactly as it has been.
Like much of current government, it needs to be reformed into non-existence.
The Wailing Wall over that should be closed until the UC system (and every other state college system in the U.S.) has <2% foreign students, and 98% U.S. citizens again.
We could end all immigration, of all types, tomorrow, and the U.S would thrive and prosper, including industries long dormant.
The only economy that would suffer would be those countries where the H-1B wetbacks could no longer ship 75% of their paychecks back to their home country.
The proof of the pudding is this: require that for every immigrant admitted on an H-1B visa, one congressweasel had to be fired, and replaced by someone imported from Shitholia or Trashcanistan. (If we're going to elect crooks, we might as well get them for half price, right?) That move would cap the number of H-1B visas at 0, in perpetuity, in about 0.2 seconds.
As it should be forever.
QED
How far up your arse is your head?? My mother said that after WW2, they brought Germans in by the car load. Not scientists, or Wonderkins......women who they thought were "more glamorous" to the Beverly Hills shops and fired the American women who had worked there since the late '30s. As far as Aesop mentioning the Filipinas......in the '80s they also imported tons of Chinese, Iranian, UK, and Australian nurses who would, of course work for less and demand less. There were plenty of American nurses-fully qualified or just out of training, who could not find a job. THEY wanted real wages and benefits, the others wanted a Green Card. Or a rich American husband. The whole program is a scam of major proportion.
Here's a study supporting the statements around H1-B's being paid less for the same work, that the program is a scam and who the culprit companies are. Hint: Indian recruitment companies operating in the USA. Via CFP yesterday:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1873174358535110953
Nemo
30 years ago, a neighbor in New Orleans, a Scot, was fighting for years to apply for citizenship, as a tech expert in deep sea ROV.
A Masters degree mechanical engineer, who designed, built, and operated ROVs for the oil industry, and the only one who actually understood the systems he built, he was repeatedly excluded because he would take an American job. One that he continued to do as a legal resident with a work visa.
Actually, I think that he was kept out because he was White and conservative, as was his wife and kids.
John in Indy
I don't always agree with you but, in this case, yeah, Team Aesop, %100. You got a way with words, man.
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