Thursday, August 3, 2023

Food For Thought


Takeaways:

1) Ukraine will never stop fighting short of annihilation. (We told you this from the get-go last year.)

2) Russia cannot afford to stop fighting. Even if Putin goes away somehow (actuarial tables, coup, whatever.) Their elites are trying to re-establish the Soviet Union borders, as a means of internal security from perceived external threats. And that typical Russian paranoia is bringing about the exact external threats that didn't exist in January of 2022. NATO is now bigger than ever, meaner, and more anti-Russian than any time since the Berlin Wall went up in 1961.

3) Half of current "Russia" isn't made up of Russians. Moscow feels this in their bones.

4) If Moscow revolts, the whole enterprise collapses.

5) Russia has a history of riding forms of government right into the smoking hole of history. {cf. both Czarist Russia, and Communist Russia.} There's no reason to think they won't ride the current system right into total collapse either. It's what they do.

6) Besides destroying 1/3 to 1/2 of their ground combat power since 2/22, Russia has driven fully a third of its draft-aged males out of the country. They've got a lot fewer folks to draft, and the people running things at every age group and demographic aren't being replaced. That's everything from farms to manufacturing to research labs to nuclear power plants - and nuclear weapons. Most of their best minds who could get out are long gone, and the actuarial brain drain accelerates with every passing year.

7) Pushing generals out of windows isn't making the Russian Army leaner and meaner. It's just cutting off its head, as Stalin's purges did to it in the 1930s. Which is why Hitler's armies were able to push them to the brink of destruction for four years before total mobilization and Western aid finally turned the tide. 

8) There's no aid coming this time, from anywhere, least of all China, and they're currently begging countries like the Norks and Iran for any scraps they can spare. China and India are simply buying Russian oil and gas at fire-sale prices, but it's less than half of what Europe was buying, in hard dollars, which isn't helping Russia's economy much. It's mainly just slowing the collapse.


For the perennial fucktards out there with a room-temp (at the North Pole) IQ, that isn't saying anywhere that Ukraine is "winning". Yet again, look at photos and reports from France circa 1919, and tell the class what "winning" looks like when your front yard is the front line. 

Ukraine winning looks like national survival. And week on week, them eventually regaining Crimea looks likelier and likelier, and eventually pushing Russia completely out of Donetsk and Luhansk isn't beyond belief either. 

Leaving Russia, just as after their Afghanistan debacle, with nothing to show for their effort but international embarrassment, crushing economic decay, and a large heap of dead Russian troops for their trouble.

What it does foretell is that as long as the West is resupplying Ukraine, Russian short-term prospects get bleaker by the month, and their long-term prospects died early last year. Their long-term future is as a shell of their former self, split up internally, their population gutted by war losses, refugee/draft-dodger flight, and the march of time.

Most of the -stans are already getting restless. And Putin has no one left to send if they all tell him to f**k right off.

20 comments:

Michael said...

Time will tell Aesop.

Nobody starts a war (even a proxy one) with the idea they will lose and maybe be destroyed.

The Meat of your post is this:

What it does foretell is that as long as the West is resupplying Ukraine, Russian short-term prospects get bleaker by the month, and their long-term prospects died early last year. Their long-term future is as a shell of their former self, split up internally, their population gutted by war losses, refugee/draft-dodger flight, and the march of time.

Do you think that Russia doesn't KNOW this?

They KNOW the USA is the source of their problems, even the "Unrest in the "stans" Color Revolution again?

What is the final act of a doomed nuclear armed nation, Aesop?

You might want to spend a bit of time with your "Treasured Family" as that time might be less than you think.

Bigus Macus said...

This war belongs to NATO and the U.S. Ukraine has been destroyed.

Delta Mike said...

Seriously? I mean c'mon Aesop!! Is Glen so bad that you want to give him an aneurysm??

From my perspective you certainly dish it as well as you take it, and the fireworks are typically epic. Hopefully this will be one of those times it makes the front page, I do so hate visiting that Canadian outhouse har har har. (Had to throw that in for ya...)

We don't agree on all of your points, but I read and consider my calibration and reload my devil's advocate gun accordingly. Amazingly have not blown a gasket yet, har har har.

Going in to make popcorn now....


Semper Fi

Aesop said...

@Michael,

"They KNOW the USA is the source of their problems, even the "Unrest in the "stans" Color Revolution again?"
Utter horseshit. The stans aren't Russian, and never were, and are ethnically, religiously, and culturally so inimically opposed to what Moscow wants as to make any outside influence superfluous. They're tied now only by inertia, and it will take less than a mouse fart to get them to tell the Kremlin exactly where and how far up to pound their dreams of permanent empire.

The final act of a doomed nuclear-armed nation has already been witnessed. They curl up and die, quietly. The post-Soviet security state ushered in after the fall of communism will go just like their Soviet predecessor, because they're sociopaths, but not suicidal.

Putin likes to rattle the nuclear saber, but the reality is apparent: if he reaches for that weapon outside of an actual Western nuclear attack on Russia, he's going to suffer a Stalinesque "stroke" at the muzzle velocity of a Makarov behind the ear.


@Bigus Macus,

I've got an inkling that the war belongs to Russia, beginning with an invasion of Ukraine with 200,000 troops last year, in what was the fourth Russian invasion of that country since 2014. It stopped going they way they hoped on about Day Three. Everything since that peak has been gravity, working, when one jumps off a cliff. As Zeihan's observations point out, it's all "so far, so good..." right up until impact with the rocks at the bottom. Russia's next turning will not be pretty, and the future is even bleaker than the last collapse. This war was a move of desperation, informed by rosy assumptions and 80 years of gun-decked and pencil-whipped efficiency reports, neither of which had any bearing on reality. Truth is a harsh mistress.

Until NATO invades something, trying to pin this on them is like trying to pin the tail on a donkey that's not even in the same zip code.

If Russia doesn't like Big Boy Rules, they probably shouldn't have sent all those arms to the Norks in the '50s and North Vietnamese in the '60s and '70s, nor had their own pilots fly MiGs against American pilots in both conflicts, when it suited their interests to do so.

As it is, they're lucky they're facing Ukrainians in MiG-29s, rather than good ole boys in Ukrainian-flagged F-16s and A-10s. We've looked the other way on things like that before.
Bear well in mind that Pappy Boyington had six kills as a civilian in China, and that wasn't even good enough to get him into the Top Ten among the Flying Tigers.

Given all the flying talent that's left just the US military since 1991, thinking something like that can't or won't happen again is a sucker bet.

Aesop said...

@Delta Mike,

I'm open to rational disputation backed up by documented evidence.
That's been pretty thin on the ground since the outset.

Most of what comes back in response is nothing but assgas and diaper spackle, wrapped in farcical assumptions, spurious propaganda, and pre-adolescent ad hominem, by people with Dunning-Krugeresque levels of self-confidence in their self-appraisal of their own expertise and analysis.
Imagine my utter lack of astonishment.

And The World's Foremost Never-Served Expert from Canuckistan doesn't even make it to the minor league wannabes of that crowd. He's been wrong pretty much daily on this since it started, and the best thing he could do would be to stick to what he knows something about, whatever that may be.

Unlike MacGregor's persistent codswallop, and any number of other people on the 'net giving Putin a daily tongue bath for his imaginary stand for all that's Good and Right In The World, Zeihan seems to not be prone to wild assumptions; he tends to look at things on a long view, and see parts of the board a lot of other people ignore.

I've said time after time, and been roundly ignored, that both sides can lose this, and Russia can't win, short of total annihilation of the Ukrainian people.
Which eventuality would, for them, necessitate a level of victory designation in the language that was orders of magnitude worse than "pyrhhic".

As Joshua could have told Putin in War Games,
"What a stupid game. The only winning move is not to play."

Trumpeter said...

I have been listening to US artillery practice for over 50 years. It has been dead quiet for two months now.

Capitalist Eric said...

>>"Unlike MacGregor's persistent codswallop..."<<

I occasionally read your posts for entertainment value. Today was no disappointment, as you're as arrogant and yet strangely obtuse. One wonders how you will spin it, when Russia marches to the Polish border, the (4th) Ukrainian army having folded like a cheap suit.

As to McGregor, hehas the experience in REAL combat, he has the chops to speak intelligently on the subject. So does Scott Ritter, for that matter. So does Gonzalo Lira...

In comparison, your qualifications are WHAT, precisely? Oh, that's right, you don't have any.

So when it comes to intelligent conversations, you really should stay quiet while adults speak.

Oh, and stop supporting REAL NAZIS.

I know, though, you won't publish this, because you're just a shit-posting coward.

Plague Monk said...

I've gotten so disgusted with the pro-Putin bloggers that I've dropped several of them from my daily sweep of the internet, including some that are/have been on your list. It has gotten to the point that the WWE plotlines and Warhammer/Warhammer 40K universes are more believable.
Mr. Filthee can be interesting and amusing when he's not dishing out personal insults. His "Nurse Ratchet" shtick pisses me off a bit, in part because I enjoyed the movie and thought that Louise Fletcher had the performance of a lifetime.

Joe in PNG said...

Putin lost on 26 February 2022, the same way Japan lost on 7 June 1942 or Germany lost on 11 December 1941.
And like with those dates, there's a whole lot of fighting left to go. And like with those two nations, the longer Putin lets this go on, the harder the crash is going to be for Russia when it ends.

Mark J said...

There is no way Ukraine can prevail in a war against Russia.

Estimates have UKR deaths at 330,000 to 350,000... kill ratios are 5 to one and some times 10 to one in Russian favor.

UKR has no air wing, no air cover. Their electric grid his mostly down. Their ports are now neutered. Over 1/2 of the population has left the country.

Russia has nuclear weapons.

Larry Johnson, CIA ret

https://sonar21.com/round-table-ukrainian-war-update-with-judge-napolitano-and-ray-mcgovern-and-a-gonzalo-lira-update/

Col Macgregor

https://www.americanpartisan.org/2023/08/ukraine-turning-into-a-grave-yard-w-col-douglas-macgregor/

US $ hedgemony black mail against Russia has put them in even better shape than pre sanctions. Their industrial sector is working 24/7 churning out war products..and they are developing trading partners that don't use the US currency and SWIFT transfer system. Gold.

The US print...the secret go to weapon..is presently causing inflation that is ravaging the economy. They accounted a Trillion more in debt in 5 weeks ... looking at June/July.

Inflation caused revolution.

All Russia has to do is be Russia, and NATO becomes totally mute. What have they got mobilized... 1.4 million soldiers?

Nuclear subs.

Space arms.

A very competent Navy.

m

Anonymous said...

I'm surprised this mess hasn't grown geographically yet... I figured that by now either the fighting would have spread further or that other countries would be openly fighting in Ukraine.
Jonathan

Tucanae Services said...

The RU-UA engagement tells something else -- The Founders were right.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State ...".

To the chagrin of the Lefties in our midst, the UA Territorial Guard (aka militia) were able to slow down the RU forces by punching holes in their logistical chain and denying critical transport hubs till the cavalry could arrive to better effect. I am not suggesting Billy Bob who does shootem-ups on the weekend is the end all be all. But he would do a damn sight better than the blue haired, ring nosed, Mulvaney look-a-like looking for a Safe Space(tm).

Shame the UA does not have a tactical capability of executing a landing on Crimea by sea. Win or lose, the political ramifications would be enormous.

Aesop said...

@Mark J,

Estimates have UKR deaths at 330,000 to 350,000... kill ratios are 5 to one and some times 10 to one in Russian favor.
Those are Russian estimates, largely masturbatory.
Russia, meanwhile, is on its third conscription drive in a year. Do the math on that.
They've had only two military groups considered competent:
1) their Airborne and Spetsnaz troops: largely annihilated in the debacle trying to take Kiev's main airport a year ago.
2) Wagner: now virtually non-existent, and what's left is anti-Moscow and anti-Putin, and wholly untrustworthy.
The rest is mainly untrained conscripts doing their mandatory service: cannon fodder.

"UKR has no air wing, no air cover. Their electric grid his mostly down. Their ports are now neutered. Over 1/2 of the population has left the country."
Compare and contrast North Vietnam's situation in 1972. Tell the class whose flag now flies over former Saigon. We'll wait for you.
And less than 20% of the population has left the country, and that's mostly the old, infirm, and the women and children.
Show links to recent videos of Russia's Air Force attacking anywhere in Ukraine.
It hasn't been seen in any numbers since last April except as May Day Parade floats, and it hasn't managed so much as one successful combined arms attack in 18 months of trying.

"Russia has nuclear weapons."
And if it uses them, it outdoes actual Hitler, and probably triggers the destruction of all of Russia, and most of the Northern hemisphere. If Putin reaches for those weapons in a regional war, he'll likely get executed for his troubles, and he knows it. He may be suicidal and pathologically insane, but his military command, not so much.

"US $ hedgemony black mail against Russia has put them in even better shape than pre sanctions. Their industrial sector is working 24/7 churning out war products..and they are developing trading partners that don't use the US currency and SWIFT transfer system. Gold."
The ruble is worthless outside Russia, and the only people using it are China and India, buying oil and gas at half-price. The Russian economy is 25-33% smaller than last January, and their only export is commodities, which no one is buying besides what's already been mentioned. Nothing's coming in, and they'll be lucky to feed themselves in coming years.

"All Russia has to do is be Russia, and NATO becomes totally mute. What have they got mobilized... 1.4 million soldiers?"
"Russia being Russia" is how they got into this fix.
And if NATO is such a paper tiger, explain to the class Putin's rabid frothing vitriolic hatred of its expansion, at the behest of the exact nations who've joined since 1990. You can't have that both ways, and you should probably stop giving Vlad a tongue bath unless he's paying you for your troubles.

"Nuclear subs."
https://i.imgur.com/a4uhXgW.png - "Chernobyl, at sea"
https://i.imgur.com/NDoMkd2.jpg - "Russian Northern Fleet, Murmansk"

"Space Arms."
https://www.wired.com/story/russias-space-program-is-in-big-trouble/
"Russia" and "space competency" never appear in the same sentence.

"A very competent navy."
The flagship of the Black Sea Fleet is a submarine. Which used to be a cruiser.
Russia is bottlenecked in the Baltic, and the Black Sea, and cut off from any open-sea access until further notice.
Their only ports are Murmansk (photo of the Russian Rustbucket Navy in Murmansk above), and Vladivostok, 5000 miles to the West, its only year-around port with open access.

The Swiss Navy is in better shape.

Thanks for playing, but tell your FSB handlers to send you better intel.
If this is the best you can do, the 9th graders of the JROTC in Peoria could run rings around you.

Aesop said...

@Capitalist Eric,

MacGregor has combat chops, but he's been out of the dotMil for 20 years, and he has access to no better intelligence about this war than you or I do.

Ritter never saw a day in combat, and he's a paroled convicted sex offender.
His analysis suffers the same handicap as MacGregor's: open-source only.

Lira never served in anyone's military, is a YouTuber, and is now in jail in Ukraine for pro-Soviet views. His only claim to fame is actually being on the ground in Ukraine.

That's your pantheon of "experts".
So you can understand why my concern for your opinion is somewhere between my regard for shit and syphilis.

Before you go, why don't you tell us how Putin's rectum tastes?

It's really a pity you didn't have something to offer in your one blast of glory besides naked ad hominem, but evidently on this topic, independent facts are like kryptonite to you and your ilk, and you never go near them.
Hence the unrestrainable urge to simply come in and throw feces.
How infantile.

DLTDHYITAOYWO

Tucanae Services said...

Mark J @4:38

"Estimates have UKR deaths at 330,000 to 350,000... kill ratios are 5 to one and some times 10 to one in Russian favor."

Considering the conditions, and on the offensive a 5:1 ratio would be considered 'successful' in many quarters. Still sucks but pales in comparison to the kill losses the Chinese faced in Korea.

"UKR has no air wing, no air cover. Their electric grid his mostly down. Their ports are now neutered. Over 1/2 of the population has left the country."

No air? Are you sure? I have changed my definition of Air. If you can take a $250 drone and $50 of explosive and drop it for effect on a $3m tank, that is air cover. Even the Russians have learned that lesson. Short of the use of ground hugging Alligators, the traditional RU AF favors airborne stand off missile launches within their territory.

Their grid down is an annoyance not a show stopper. As to ports, goes both ways. As it was last year the insurance companies have the last say. And like last year, they will tell the shipping companies that they will have no coverage on any tonnage transiting the Black Sea. With no ships, ports are mere unused infrastructure, both sides.

As to the last point about emigres consider it the reserve. The Brits evac'd half of the population of London during the blitz. As before, the egress is mostly women and children. Now compare that to the Russians, most are men of draft age that have left the country. Significance in the disparity.

Personally I prefer it all stop. Nobody is gaining anything. Russia will have no spoils of war. Ukraine will just be spoiled for generations.

Mark said...

The discourse here is simply wonderful.

Aesop, you turn a fabulous phrase.

The experts are the people who have studied history recent and not so recent.

Level of bovine excrement appearing on the internet as facts has to be considered from the source more than for the content.

The thinkers such as Mr Zeihan seem to promulgate more of the truth than anyone else.

Aesop said...

And yet he elicits the most frothing displays of simian feces flinging from the "How dare you believe something I don't!" crowd.

And you're not seeing half a dozen anonymous screeds worse than what I let in, all of them from at least a good 20 points farther leftward on the IQ bell curve.

Termite said...

"Nuclear subs."

ROTFLMAO.


Anyone who has access to the internet, and a 100 IQ or higher, will come to the following conclusion.

NOBODY has the nuclear throw-weight that the US Navy's submariners do. It is to laugh.

Google is your friend.

Joe in PNG said...

All the things the Vatniks yammer on about with Russia still keeps falling into the Lazerpig Loop:
-People Think Russia Mil Tech is Good
-War Happens, Russia Mil Tech Turns Out To Suck
-People Forget War
-Russia Stronk Memes
-People Think Russia Mil Tech is Good

But, as Kipling noted, the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire. Likewise, wishful thinking against the tide of fact & history is not just for the Socialist.

RegretLeft said...

Ukraine wins by not losing; Russia loses by not winning. See (as per the hint above) France/Germany 1918.