1. I like Will Smith. I like Chris Rock. Neither of them came off this looking their best.
2. Rock has cracked on Will Smith many times. Smith has never smacked him around before. So let's look at what changed.
3. Jada Pinkett Smith was at the Oscars, because she's a bona-fide actress, and married to Will Smith, nominated for Best Actor this year, for 25 years.
4. Rock is divorced.
5. There is a comedy line. And I'm not talking the PC cancel-culture nonsense. There are simply things you don't do. Rock knows this now, just like how a man who picks a cat up by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way, as Mark Twain famously observed.
6. If Rock had poked fun at Smith for having big ears, or doing Wild, Wild West, or noted Jada Smith is more likely to get a Golden Raspberry Award than an Oscar, that would have been in-bounds. And, to be fair, Smith even laughed at the joke about Jada and G.I Jane 2. Right up until his wife let him know the joke at her expense wasn't funny. Her face looked like stone.
7. At that point, Smith sent Rock a message: you don't get to kick retarded kids, and you don't get to crap on a man's wife because of her physical appearance due to her medical condition (alopecia).
8. People will try to throw out "Rickels" or "Dangerfield", by way of excuse: No sale. Both teased friends and strangers in good fun, and said so publicly every time they did it, and you knew there was no malice in their rips. Anyone who can't tell that after watching them perform for 2 minutes isn't paying attention.
9. Until last night, Rock didn't know the difference. Now he does.
10. He also knows why it's called a "punchline", and that the Supreme Court wasn't kidding when they recognized that some speech qualifies as provocative "fighting words". "Sticks and stones" isn't a valid argument. Don't believe me; go to any bar, and call someone's companion an "ugly bitch". Be sure you have full dental coverage beforehand. Tell the class how it works out for you. Once your jaw wires are removed.
11. Rock doesn't have cinematic immunity for being a rude jackass just because he's on international TV. But with his one good ear, he'll probably pay a bit more attention to his own inner filter.
12. Standing there afterwards didn't show class; it showed he didn't have the grace to say "I went too far; I apologize". That would have been the Bigger Man gesture. But he doesn't have that in him. And maybe getting someone with more class and grace than recent edgy smartasses to emcee what is supposed to be the biggest event in Hollywood would be a better idea. The Academy hasn't found anyone who was more funny than irritating, and more humorous than raunchy, since Billy Crystal hung up his tux a few years back.
13. Will Smith doesn't have an anger problem, he has a sense of proportion. (Timing, not so much. If he'd instead socked Rock with a closed fist behind closed doors, he'd have saved his wife's honor and his own reputation, and perhaps more effectively with less backlash.) But sometimes, you have to throw an elbow - once - in a televised game, to get some respect. There is something salutary, in a civilizational way, in seeing a husband literally stand up and take a poke at someone who has transgressed the bounds of propriety. If anything, Smith was too gentle with Rock, but in any event, I suspect his point landed home simultaneous with the slap.
14. The big winners were the producers of the show, because it took a probable new record audience low and turned it into an event that'll be talked about for years to come. Rock looks like a graceless jackass, and Smith will have to deal with people thinking he's a hot-head, after 53 years of being no such thing. If the Academy is smart, Rock and Smith will be paired as co-presenters next year, and Rock should wear a sparring helmet.
15. Smith's recognized acting talent means he's far from over, and Rock's comedy will always find an audience. But unless this hatchet gets buried, they probably shouldn't share the stage in the future. And the notes to future emcees should probably include the delightfully old-fashioned concept that cracking jokes about the spouse of one of the premier headliner honorees is neither funny, wise, nor in-bounds.
16. The only thing Rock did right was not to file a police report. No victim: no crime. That saved him more than Smith, because the LAPD wouldn't make any arrest, and the D.A., in fact no D.A., would ever file charges even if they did. Because they know half or more of any jury would hear about Jada's Smith's medical diagnosis, and in that light, refuse to convict Will Smith of anything short of "he should have closed his fist before he smacked him". Nine chances out of ten, the judge dismisses the case out of hand before trial, because of the precedent in Chaplinsky v New Hampshire, if it ever even got that far.
17. Don't start nothing, won't be nothing.
Rock is lucky Will was channeling Chapelle, and not Fishburne. |
25 comments:
Don't care for either of them. They should head on down to Miami, they'd fit right in with the rest of the animals.
"Everybody has a plan until he gets punched in the face." - Mike Tyson
...and now every kid everywhere will just bitch slap anyone they feel like and get away with it "because Will Smith did".
THAT, friends and neighbors was assault and battery in front of an audience of 15.4 million witnesses.
Second lowest audience ever for an Oscars show.
Perhaps it was staged so that NEXT YEAR ratings will be higher with potential viewers anticipating another assault and battery with no consequences.
Like Alec Baldwin, Smith should be behind bars awaiting a hearing. But because Hollyweird, they're both walking around free, where, if that we you or me, they'd be piping us light.
Nemo
If he was going to slap someone, he probably should have started with the half dozen other guys she has been banging.
So baldness is a medical condition? Can I get some coverage for that on my insurance. Oh so bad.
Three bitches then right? Jada (dumpster), Smith (cuckold), and 'lil rock.
'lil rock preps for the slap (weak ass slap) before Smith begins. I say staged, and it worked like a charm. Movie promo.
Jada Smith, Will Smith and Chris Rock are starring in the summer remake of Three's Company.
MF
Apparently the Smiths relationship is open for sex but not jokes.
#15 ESPECIALLY if it is a medical condition. Geez, Rock, you're an imbecile.
I don't know. Is it OK for a parent to bitch-slap the commies on a school board because they insist on CRT or talking about gay sex with a 5-year old? Or is that assault, or even terrorism?
after 30 years, my wife left the family for... well, we don't fucking understand. Anyway, probably my fault somehow, I DGAF. But see, as an old Christ follower and combat vet, I take some things very seriously indeed. You can talk all the shit you want about me - but if you bring the ex, our kids - folks, you're gonna have a problem. I can talk shit all day about the heartless bitch, but no one else can. Unless they're up on explaining how a 68 year old Marine pounded the disrespect lesson into them. Ex or not, that's the mother of my children; and you do not have a 'by your leave.' And, don't even go there with mom or my dogs.
Fuck you Chris Rock. Asshole.
I don't think a cuckold has much business defending his wife's honor or doing the old you and him fight thing but I'm not married so what do I know.
Perhaps not, but I don't think a wiseass cracks on another man's wife without taking at least his teeth in his own hands. FAFO.
brother Aesop, I agree. Talks like this quickly focus on the folks involved, not the lesson to be learned. It goes like this: "talk shit, get hit". Like.tbe old scientist said, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Simple, really.
I’m no fan of Will Smith’s “wife”, but jokes about someone’s medical issues are not cool.
All three of them are graceless Clods. Smith is a Thin Skinned Horse's Rump, his Wife has No Class (at the least), & Chris Rock is a Motor Mouthed Loser. A pox on all three of them. The Entire Affair was staged, as shown by Smith's greatly exaggerated Wind-Up and Follow Through.
If Smith had not been shown laughing at the Joke, I'd buy the Offended Honor routine, but as it was...? I don't believe it.
It was a stunt, rehearsed and staged. All of them (who 'Act' for living) hit their marks and pulled it off. And, then 'We' fell for it.
You are confusing the legal world and the real world (which is full of adults who can't act like adults). Pretty much everything you said conflates the two. When the words do not imply a direct physical threat, a direct physical response is NEVER appropriate. This basic rule is why Chicago is a murder capitol. Words may hurt your feelings, but that doesn't justify what happened here. In the real world, where there are a lot of so-called adults that can't control their emotions and impulses, sure, a punch may get thrown or a weapon fired. But that doesn't make it right.
If everyone was acting like grownups, the joke would have been told, and nobody would have laughed and nobody would have been slapped.
The joke was no better and no worse than what everyone there should have expected. That's why they hire people like Chris Rock to do that job. Whether the joke was "cool" or not is irrelevant. If your feelings are that sensitive, maybe you should stay home. The real world is not an adult world. It's a world of immature emotional basket cases.
Smith is a cuckold married to a serizl cheater. She has no "honor" to be impugned or defended. It's like slapping a guy for pointing out you chose the ugly street walker.
Will Smith's hand and Chris Rock's face disagree with your assessment of the situation.
I repeat, go up to the biggest guy in the venue, and call his date an ugly bitch, and report back on what happens next.
This is why paid jackasses like Rock should never be hosting the Oscars; it's descended into a shitshow for exactly this reason, which befits the general character of movies recently, but it oughn't be thus.
Will Smith has pulled a total of over $10B in box office receipts as a leading actor, 19 of them as producer or creator, and been nominated for best actor three times. He's tied with Morgan Freeman (who's 0-3), and behind Denzel (1-6).
Chris Rock has pulled a total of less than $1B on his own, unless we count every time they add him to a cast ensemble of a dozen people. Then it's around $3B. He's got three Grammys and three Emmys, and he's probably seen the inside of the Oscars for the last time in his adult life, and should stick to TV and stand-up.
If AMPAS has to make a choice about who gets the axe, it's Rock. In the body of the film world, he's an inflammed appendix that needs lancing.
They're not going to pull the best actor from the fifth black man to win it, because the resultant riots would make it hard to function after their building was burned down.
They'll more than likely note that choosing Rock to emcee the show, in hindsight, was a grave and regretably foolish error of judgement (whoever greenlighted that choice probably just retired from AMPAS, whether they know it or not), and that will be the end of him at Oscar.
His stand-up career will get a bump, and that will be the end result of the whole episode.
If they start deciding on presenters and emcees based on being class rather than an ass, it will be a net win for everyone going forward.
@ruralcounsel,
Mr. Justice Murphy and Mr. Justice Brennan, among others, disagree with you, and have since Chaplinsky.
Perhaps you've heard of their work.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fighting_words
Rock's words were in the form of a personal insult, likely to result in a breach of the peace. Which breach occurred, as proof of the pudding. Rock has no legal leg to stand on, which is why he didn't file charges, and the Academy, after having provided the forum for such insulting language, won't do a damned thing either. They'd lose in about an hour, and Smith would get his Oscar, and hefty legal damages, if they do anything but express a stern "tutt tutt"ing.
"Cool"ness has Jack and Squat to do with things.
Rock's joke was insulting.
He got popped for that.
Dulce et decorum est.
The only thing Smith should apologize for was initially laughing at the joke, instead of going straight to the bitch-slap. Punching Rock in the mouth backstage would have been even better all around. The same lesson would have been delivered, without getting anyone's public reputation involved. And Rock with a couple of loosened teeth and a broken nose would have been a better way to express displeasure at his poor choice of material.
Whoever was in charge of impressing upon Rock that he was emceeing the Oscars, and not the MTV Awards or doing stand-up at the Improv, manifestly failed to make the point clear enough to penetrate.
Will Smith seems to have handled it nicely, and I'll bet dollars to donuts it isn't transgressed again by anyone for some decades. Which is why you throw an elbow, or send a batter some chin music: to make your point.
@Aesop Those words don't come close to being "fighting words." That's your basic legal error. Insults are not "fighting words." Perhaps you should stick to nursing and stay out of the legal world.
And if you think Rock wasn't doing exactly what he was hired to do, I've got some oceanfront property to sell you in Nevada. That's regardless of what YOU think should be the job of the Oscar MC's. Nobody gives a shit about the Oscars or MTV .... the MC's are basically just doing improv in front of a bunch of rich assholes. Maybe because you live in California you think the Oscars carry some imprimatur of class, but the rest of the world doesn't care about these self-absorbed little glitteramas.
Many of the comments seemed to be based on the speculation that 'everyone' knew or should know about Smith's wife's medical condition. That is typical of actors and 'TV personalities' who think everyone reads TMZ-type crap and untold numbers of people give a damn about her medical conditions. I had never heard of his wife and certainly knew nothing about her medical condition. If she wanted to let everyone 'know', she should have worn a sign or put on a head scarf that matched her ridiculous gown. Then Rock might have been more sensitive and skipped that joke.
What a tempest in a teapot...
@ruralcounsel:
""fighting" words -- those which, by their very utterance, inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace." - Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire
315 U.S. 568 (1942)
Peace breached immediately? Check. Game, set, match. Perhaps you should stick to wills and such, and stay out of the Constitutional field.
The Supreme Court seems to take a decisively different track on this than you do, and have repeatedly over the last 80 years. Bummer.
That Rock wasn't doing exactly what he was hired to do is a problem for the Academy, if they prove so foolish as to attempt to do anything about the incident. Last I looked, he was there to present the award for Best Documentary Feature, and remarks about any of the actors present, including Smith or his wife, exactly as Smith noted, were none of his fucking business. Perhaps you have some insider information to the contrary that hasn't come to light yet? No. How sad for you, and a failed attempt at that point.
As the party responsible for the venue, the insults, and the employer of the offender who offered them, AMPAS is now bent over, pants around their ankles, and open to a huuuuuuge legal liability if they try to paint Smith as the wrongdoer. They, indeed, own the public insults as much as Rock does. Which is why they won't do any such thing: Hollyweird is carpeted in lawyers. If they do, they'd become the second party bitch-slapped by Smith since Sunday night, and the standing o. that Smith got for his win suggests that most of the Academy members are on Smith's side, not Rock's, in the incident. (Self-parody lunatic Jim Carrey is one of the lone contrarians, which will only add to his career in Siberia for some time to come, if not permanently. Much like Sean Penn, no one misses him.) Overwhelming likelihood: AMPAS will blacklist Rock, not Smith; fire the producer who hired him; and rapidly shut up about the incident, or pay for that error financially in court.
Millions of people give a shit about the Oscars, not least of which 500K persons directly employed in the industry, and another couple of million who owe their livelihoods to it. (The fact that it used to be billions is merely testament to how atrocious the whole industry has become, which is another matter entirely.) No one's cared about MTV since they stopped playing music videos 20 years ago, and switched to their semi-pro wrestling format. This is why Rock never should have been invited to shoot his mouth off at the oscars. MTV is where he belongs. A black-tie affair, not so much. The fact that you're here flailing away over something "nobody" cares about proves the falsity of what you just attempted to sell. Own goal.
And if you think the Oscars are improv for anyone but the recipients of the awards, I've got a bridge to sell you cheap. Also, where I live has nothing to do with whether publicly insulting a man's wife is appropriate conduct for any awards presentation. All you've done is tell us all what you consider civil conduct (in Bumpkinville?), rather than what the prevailing standard is. Noted. I suspect you sing a different tune when it's your wife or someone else's, at a dress-up formal dinner at Chik-Fil-A, but such an obvious double-standard isn't relevant to the issue.
(cont.)
(cont.)
Rock, being his jackasstic self, crossed a line. The handprint on his cheek notified him of the transgression. And neither he nor AMPAS have a legal leg to stand on in response. If Rock had kept his silly-ass cracks to himself, and simply presented the award he was hired to cover, there would have been no incident, and no problems. I'd have been happier if Smith had slugged him backstage instead of on live TV to make the same point, but that's neither here nor there. Rock with a bruised eye or a broken nose would have been the funniest thing he could have done in years.
If this stops AMPAS hiring C- and D-listers to take verbal shots at the A-listers, everyone benefits.
The last time someone fired a shot across their bow so publicly was when George C. Scott told them where they could stick their award.
@Bishop,
No one cares whether you or I knew. Rock should have, being in the industry. And she'd gone public with it years past, so it wasn't news to anyone but a guy famous for being a loud-mouthed jackass. Hence the bitch-slap. Notice served.
And it wasn't a tempest in a teapot. It was a turd in the punchbowl. Smith fished it out, and served it back to the bartender. FAFO.
That's not the last joke at the Oscars, but it's probably the last choice of offensively insulting jackasses to present awards they have nothing to do with. Offensively insulting jackasses trying to tell us poor stupid folks how to live our lives, sadly, is liable to be a feature until they stop letting them speak at all. They should just hand them the awards, no microphone time, and hustle themTF off the stage, except for maybe the Big Six, and get the event down to about an hour, including commercial breaks. In by 9, out by 10, over.
They jumped the shark when they stopped doing exactly that.
@Aesop Just because YOU would breach the peace doesn't mean anything. People with hair-trigger tempers are not the standard by which we set these things. It isn't really a subjective test.
Just because the peace was breached does NOT make the words "fighting words." The whole point of the test is to decide whether or not the First Amendment applies.
Maybe you should just stick to bandaids and Bactine.
I never said I would breach the peace, so that's irrelevant.
The test is the "reasonable man" standard. Your standards, once again, are lower than mine, or Smith's. That's your choice, but it's not reasonable, and one acts like a wiseass at peril of his own dental work, and 'twas ever thus. Rock knows that now, and is still stinging from it.
Overall though, insulting a man's wife in any venue qualifies for a knuckle sandwich. President Jackson killed a man for doing that, in a far more refined time.
Ignoring as you have history, the relevant law, the facts of the incident, and common standards, it shold be pointed out yet again that the whole world is not "Yo Momma" joke night at the Improv, so that community standard doesn't apply here.
Rock, speaking in no way to anything he was hired to do, took the opportunity to insult the wife of the man pretty much anyone in the industry - including Rock - knew was going to walk away with the Best Actor award in about half an hour's time. (The people who vote the SAG Awards are the exact people who vote for the Oscar, so it's a slam-dunk giveaway). So it was a deliberate and considered insult, aimed at the wife of a guy who was sitting 20' from him, totally uncalled for and unscripted.
Smith apologized to the audience, and the Academy, and later even to Rock. Rock got exactly what he deserved, and if anything, got away too lightly. I haven't heard him apologize to anyone, anywhere, to date, and he's the one who most needs to do so. Both Rickles and Dangerfield took pains to do so every single time they did their schtick, making it plain there was no malice intended, so playing pin-the-tail-on-the-obnoxious-jackass is pretty easy in this incident, because Rock is it, and continues to wear it as a badge of honor, because he thinks he did nothing wrong. Monkeys fling their poo, but civilized human society demands a higher standard of conduct. Perhaps Smith should have closed his fist to deliver the lesson more firmly.
I get that you're butthurt about the whole thing, and feel differently, but arguing from that pain isn't getting you anywhere, and sinking to ad hominem when you can't have it your way merely underlines the weakness of your case on the merits.
"Fighting words" exist, their existence has been acknowledged in SCOTUS opinions since before either of us were born, Rock uttered them, and Smith notified him of that transgression. He should have taken him over his knee and spanked him like the childman he is, but it's not a perfect world.
FA,FO.
QED
Maybe you need to refresh your memory on this cinematic moment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KB2xignE6c
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