...and some much for the new and older classes of U.S. aircraft carrier being useful before being killed in any conflict in the S. China sea.
One of the reports I read was that Ukraine "distracted" Moskva's defensive systems with drones coming from multiple angles, then snuck the anti-ship missile in under the radar, so to speak.
With the performance of the Russian military, deploying supposed elite units during this mess, I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why the U.S. and European military has been so afraid of them "pouring through eastern Europe on a broad front" for the last 70+ years.
Now, of course, the U.S. ex-military talking heads on the networks are trying to keep the fear factor high with talk "nukes" and and other WMD's being deployed.
They STILL think we're stupid after all of the lies they've been telling during various conflicts and other misinformation campaigns over the last generation or so.
@Nemo, Bear in mind that at their peak strength, the Soviet Army had 50,000-60,000 tanks to NATO's 12,000 or so. Now the Russian Army has only 10,000, total. (And probably closer to only 9,000 since the 1st of April.) Things have changed a wee bit since 1985.
The Moskva, one of three of that class missile cruisers, was the only one that had not been dry docked for a full modernization which would have included a new, more robust fire suppression system. The other two of the class, the Marshall Ustinov and the Varyag, have been fully modernized.
Despite the claims of the Ukrainian thugs and NATO/UK,EU the ship was not sunk from a missile strike.
PS - The Russian Federation has won in Ukraine, only mop up operations are ongoing.
The Russian Steamroller was a huge fear of 19th century Europe as well. Austria & Germany feared it, and France counted on it- thus the Schliffen Plan.
Then WWI happened. Seems that tons and tons of badly trained, poorly led, and basically unequipped soldiers are worse than useless.
There's two problems with that explanation, Pat: The Ukrainians claimed they'd hit her before Russia explained they'd had a coincidental fire and explosion, and the surviving Russian navy is now sitting farther offshore from Ukraine.
Those are "indicators".
Occam's Razor dictates that Russia is full of shit on this sea story. Moskva was sunk, in a war, by enemy action. Exactly as claimed. Sucks to be Team Vlad. QED
And if Russia is doing so much "winning", why so much whining? Winners don't whine. What should they care who joins NATO, or how many arms and munitions get delivered to the country they supposedly beat (leaving a trail of dead bodies and blown up tanks all the way from and to the border)?
Paranoid schizophrenia is at play here, on an international scale. Something Russia has been doing for 500 years and more professionally.
The Yeahbutt excuses are actually worse, more pathetic, and make the Russians look more incompetent than accepting the fact of a successful missile strike.
It sounds like the dood who talks a really big game in, let's say, shooting. Then, when you get him on the range, he just plain sucks. His gun handling is terrible, his guns jam, he's sundial slow, and his hits are everywhere but on the target. So, he starts yammering out the excuses. The ammo was bad. The light was bad... hell, the whole range wasn't set up properly- you know the sort of crap loudmouth braggarts do when they try to put up, fail, but don't shut up.
I do laugh at some of the amateurish comments I see above.
Long ago, when the Bolsheviks were still in charge of the Soviet Union, lots of their equipment was primitive by our standards. Yeah, I was in intelligence work WAY back then (1967-1969), yes against the Soviet Union. I don't know what y'all were doing then,
I retired after 30 years service.
So, y'all can speculate on what the Russian Federation is doing in 2022, it has no bearing on things they did as the Bolshevik run Soviet Union.
The Russian Federation's Special Military Operation, in addition to being completely legal (the two Soros funded thugs violated a number of treaties and agreements) had been shelling the civilian population of the Donbas region for eight years killing over 15,000, and on and on. Details are important, but the facts are out there.
If you think what Putin has done is completely legal, you might want to refresh your memory on the promises Russia agreed to in exchange for Ukraine giving up the nukes they held after the fall of the Soviet Union. Starting with absolute respect for Ukraine's 1990 territorial integrity, which Russia has now violated three separate times, counting this latest lubeless ass-raping.
Nothing Putin has done with regard to Ukraine has been legal at any point in time, nor has that consideration ever entered into his mental considerations.
The Russian navy really needs to move towards all glass bottom boats, so they can view their history.
ReplyDelete...and some much for the new and older classes of U.S. aircraft carrier being useful before being killed in any conflict in the S. China sea.
ReplyDeleteOne of the reports I read was that Ukraine "distracted" Moskva's defensive systems with drones coming from multiple angles, then snuck the anti-ship missile in under the radar, so to speak.
With the performance of the Russian military, deploying supposed elite units during this mess, I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why the U.S. and European military has been so afraid of them "pouring through eastern Europe on a broad front" for the last 70+ years.
Now, of course, the U.S. ex-military talking heads on the networks are trying to keep the fear factor high with talk "nukes" and and other WMD's being deployed.
They STILL think we're stupid after all of the lies they've been telling during various conflicts and other misinformation campaigns over the last generation or so.
Nemo
@Nemo,
ReplyDeleteBear in mind that at their peak strength, the Soviet Army had 50,000-60,000 tanks to NATO's 12,000 or so.
Now the Russian Army has only 10,000, total. (And probably closer to only 9,000 since the 1st of April.)
Things have changed a wee bit since 1985.
Yes, that's funny.
ReplyDeleteThe Moskva, one of three of that class missile cruisers, was the only one that had not been dry docked for a full modernization which would have included a new, more robust fire suppression system. The other two of the class, the Marshall Ustinov and the Varyag, have been fully modernized.
Despite the claims of the Ukrainian thugs and NATO/UK,EU the ship was not sunk from a missile strike.
PS - The Russian Federation has won in Ukraine, only mop up operations are ongoing.
The Russian Steamroller was a huge fear of 19th century Europe as well.
ReplyDeleteAustria & Germany feared it, and France counted on it- thus the Schliffen Plan.
Then WWI happened. Seems that tons and tons of badly trained, poorly led, and basically unequipped soldiers are worse than useless.
There's two problems with that explanation, Pat:
ReplyDeleteThe Ukrainians claimed they'd hit her before Russia explained they'd had a coincidental fire and explosion, and the surviving Russian navy is now sitting farther offshore from Ukraine.
Those are "indicators".
Occam's Razor dictates that Russia is full of shit on this sea story. Moskva was sunk, in a war, by enemy action. Exactly as claimed. Sucks to be Team Vlad.
QED
And if Russia is doing so much "winning", why so much whining? Winners don't whine. What should they care who joins NATO, or how many arms and munitions get delivered to the country they supposedly beat (leaving a trail of dead bodies and blown up tanks all the way from and to the border)?
Paranoid schizophrenia is at play here, on an international scale. Something Russia has been doing for 500 years and more professionally.
When the sums don't add up, re-check the math.
Russian naval history is a study in depression.
ReplyDeleteThe Yeahbutt excuses are actually worse, more pathetic, and make the Russians look more incompetent than accepting the fact of a successful missile strike.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like the dood who talks a really big game in, let's say, shooting. Then, when you get him on the range, he just plain sucks. His gun handling is terrible, his guns jam, he's sundial slow, and his hits are everywhere but on the target.
So, he starts yammering out the excuses. The ammo was bad. The light was bad... hell, the whole range wasn't set up properly- you know the sort of crap loudmouth braggarts do when they try to put up, fail, but don't shut up.
That's Russia and Russian apologist right now.
LOL pat "mop up operations".
ReplyDeleteit's mud season. the defender always has the advantage. russia will break itself extracting what little mechanized units it has from the ukranian mud.
it will take them longer this time to recover than it did when they extracted themselves from afghanistan. if they recover at all.
I do laugh at some of the amateurish comments I see above.
ReplyDeleteLong ago, when the Bolsheviks were still in charge of the Soviet Union, lots of their equipment was primitive by our standards. Yeah, I was in intelligence work WAY back then (1967-1969), yes against the Soviet Union. I don't know what y'all were doing then,
I retired after 30 years service.
So, y'all can speculate on what the Russian Federation is doing in 2022, it has no bearing on things they did as the Bolshevik run Soviet Union.
The Russian Federation's Special Military Operation, in addition to being completely legal (the two Soros funded thugs violated a number of treaties and agreements) had been shelling the civilian population of the Donbas region for eight years killing over 15,000, and on and on. Details are important, but the facts are out there.
If you think what Putin has done is completely legal, you might want to refresh your memory on the promises Russia agreed to in exchange for Ukraine giving up the nukes they held after the fall of the Soviet Union.
ReplyDeleteStarting with absolute respect for Ukraine's 1990 territorial integrity, which Russia has now violated three separate times, counting this latest lubeless ass-raping.
Nothing Putin has done with regard to Ukraine has been legal at any point in time, nor has that consideration ever entered into his mental considerations.