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| When you're falling off a cliff, everything you grasp at isn't a lifeline, and wishing otherwise will not make it so. |
Secession?
Risible. (Common Core grads, look it up.)
Like winning the billion-dollar lottery, it's free, and fun to dream about. And just about as likely to happen, ever.
One might as well suggest we build a new Mayflower and sail off in search of a new land to colonize.
First, the dead horse.
Now, the obligatory beating of same.
Exit is impossible, and the idea is beyond retarded.
Don't get me wrong: the rationale for wishing to do so is as sane and sensible as the day is long, but wishes are not horses.
In 1860, you had clearly defined geographical lines of fracture. And even then, VA lost 1/3 of its territory, and the rest of the border states were similarly split and hamstrung.
You have nothing - absolutely nothing - as neatly and cleanly divided now.
Texas is going to wipe out Austin. Pfft. Sh'yeah.
Georgians will exterminate Atlanta. As if.
The rest of VA will obliterate the counties bordering on DC? Yeah, okay, pull the other one, it has bells on it.
The whole country is purpling up nicely.
You simply can't have secession when it would be the family on Main St. versus the couple around the corner, or the folks in Apt. 1B fighting with the guy in 3C.
Anything like Civil War 2.0 won't be North vs. South, or even city vs. country; it's going to be Bracken's "Bosnia x Rwanda". Think Beirut times 50 cities, and Hutu vs. Tutsis in 50 states. Even so-called "blue" states like NFY and Califrutopia are, at best, 60/40 propositions, and would be every bit as bloody an urban slaughter as you'd get if it was St. louis vs. the rest of Missouri, or Chicongo vs. Illinois. So who's going to secede from whom?
Nobody, that's who.
You might maybe could get North Dakota free and clear. Enjoy their balmy winters, kids. And make friends with Canada, fast. Otherwise it'll just become a reservation for white people, and the local native Americans might take issue with that, just a bit.
Hawaii would go, for sure, but not towards you, but rather independence. Alaska too, although it'd be a toss up if the next governor was Anglo, Eskimo, Canadian, or Siberian Russian. And Hawaii would be looking hard at becoming aligned or allied with Japan or China, in about 0.2 seconds, which probably wasn't in anyone's interests beforehand, let alone afterwards, but nature abhors a vacuum.
New Mexico would become Old Mexico in a heartbeat, and so would AZ, half of Califrutopia, southern Nevada, and more of Texas than you'd wish to part with willingly.
In short, fuggedaboudit.
The last time anyone had an escape plan this bad, Cleavon Little held a gun to his head in Blazing Saddles.
In a farce, it's funny; in real life, not so much.
You want to crack the mold, and think outside the box? Try the Free State Project, but with a brain.
Dump 6M or so hardcore conservatives into California. You'd price the illegals out of the market, flip the state, the U.S. Congress too, vote the liberal @$$holes out by the metric f**kton, and the democrats wouldn't win another presidential election this century, even if they shipped in cargo containers of ballots from China.
What've you got to lose? You're already bitching about Texas turning into California. Why not turn California into Texas instead??
Imagine the shrieking the day pampered poseurs from Hollywood were faced with paparazzi toting AR-15s to the food court. Or passing a 200% excise tax on soy lattes and vegan cheeseburgers.
Stop pining for places to run and hide, and start looking for ways to shove reality up communists' noses (or a couple of feet lower) until they cry for mama. Stop trying to build the castle walls higher on your little fantasyland fiefdoms, drop the drawbridges, and get out there and burn the weeds out of the fields instead. Stop wishing for a dreamworld you'll never get; grab the world you've got by the throat, and beat it into submission instead.
That's America.
Since 1603.
You could look it up.
Von Clauswitz wrote about "the friction of war".
Be the friction: throw sand in your enemy's gears, and monkeywrench his plans.
If you're worried about a conflict, the lesson of history is to stop worrying about a hidey hole, go forth, and f**k up some of the Bad Guy's stuff.
It's fun, satisfying, and actually accomplishes worthwhile goals.
"A good tactic is one your people enjoy." - Saul Alinsky, Rules For Radicals
Yes and No. Secession will happen but be a reaction to events, not planned - like a large natural disaster or war occurring at the same moment socialist economy finally implodes. At that point you have to bail or get sucked down with the undertow, and it will happen organically. And you are correct, it happening by state boundaries will not happen. It will be by region and along county lines. It will only be successful in some areas of north America - those areas that have the right combination of natural resources, agriculture and industry. Other areas, like my former home of southern California or the urban northeastern US will be wildly unsuccessful, emphases on the word wild.
ReplyDeleteThat's why I suspect things will get a lot more kinetically inclined than anyone wants to mentally confront.
ReplyDeleteBut I wanted to show that there are other ways to flip the script, if people wanted to try doing it without burning the whole thing down first.
But most will dither until the Great Bonfire is the only choice left.
Your point about the states having too much of a mix of political idealogies to be able to secede is an accurate assessment.
ReplyDeleteI doubt secession would work for other reasons, mainly because of the intense hatred the leftists have for conservatives. Don't think for a minute that the leftists would just let the conservatives split into their own country without repercussions. They would declare the new country a terrorist state (after all they are already declaring conservatives as domestic terrorists), and freeze all bank accounts belonging to any entity residing in the conservative country. They would refuse to recognize any passports from the conservative country, which would harm business travellers, families trying to visit relatives, etc. They would block the export of any vital product from the leftist country to the conservative country. They would impose huge tariffs on any product being imported from the conservative country, choosing to get the equivalent product from some other country. The list goes on and on as to what the leftists would think to do that would cause harm to the conservative country. And, it wouldn't be limited to just the American leftists taking these actions, but it would include all countries around the world that are currently controlled by leftist leaning governments. Remember, a large part of the world hated Trump for his America first agenda, and that hate would be transferred to a new conservative country. So, unless the new conservative country is to be totally self-sufficient, it isn't likely to work.
Shortly after kickoff, watch for mass migrations between States like the world has never seen. If you want a historical example, look at the founding of Pakistan.
ReplyDeleteI suspect it will start as a low grade insurgency in response to tyranny, followed by a Balkans-like war of all against all (as Matt Bracken predicted), which will turn into a mass migration to sort territories out by ethnicity and worldview, and finally ending in three or more new countries being founded on the ashes of the lower 48.
I guess offense is a good defense (LOL)!
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with making Cali (where I grew up in the 70s early 80s) more like Texas but the problem is you will not get those kinds of people to move to Cali given the insane taxes/policies and permanent progressive lock on power.
ReplyDeleteIf I moved there, I would have to increase my income 250% just to stay at the same standard of living. And in my profession in Cali, it is impossible to do so. I did that math about 26 years ago in thinking of moving back there after training to be closer to my parents and friends. My parent's have passed away and most of my friends have left the state for greener and saner pastures so there is zero reason for me to go move back there.
I don't think there will be violent succession (but there might be).
I think states will start ignoring DC's edicts, stop sending gasoline taxes, etc. The average person will simply stop paying federal income taxes. (You can do that by changing your W9 to exempt or 8 dependents.) They will stop filling out census forms, ignore federal jury duty, toss the gun registration forms in the trash, etc. People start taking their money out of banks, going cash, buying local, turning OFF the cable/twitter/amazon/facebook. Starve the beast.
Especially if our government operates like Baghdad's Green Zone. All their laws, edicts, EOs, have to be enforced somehow. If they fed.gov is now bankrupt and half the military walks off the job, how will they enforce anything? It will start slow and there will be a few Wacos and Ruby Ridges along the way - but that will merely harden the resolve of the red states to turn their backs on DC and the blue states.
The red states separate from the blue not by guns but by just going their own way. That is my hope but I fear that there is terrible violence coming.
Embrace, I agree with your assessment. When the Soviet Union fell, and Communism across all of Eastern Europe, I remember thinking that if I were part of the Western establishment I'd be getting a little nervous.
DeleteI have to agree with you Squire Aesop, it's through our ambivalence towards everything but the immediate concerns of our little private world that has allowed us to get to this point. Get back in their faces I believe is the best answer. I always been that way. Have spent the better part of fiddy plus years collecting wrenches, and monkeying comes naturally. Been that way since childhood and know for a fact it roasts and confuses people of the controlling type.... The point I believe is, quit standing idly by and get out and do it. Don't wait for someone else to make the first move, be proactive. It doesn't take a lot to figure out who a commie is, a few minutes of conversation and they give themselves away. When they figure out that they have to drive 300 miles to get their car fixed they wise up.....sometimes........
ReplyDeleteLegal secession? Nope, not going to happen. I live in what many would like to see as "The State of Jefferson", and believe me, would love to see the Commies vanquished in Salem. Like kaiserworks said, I'm looking at this more in reaction to insolvency. What happens if (or when) Kommie Kate Brown types, or Resident Biden no longer has a solvent system to crush team patriot. However, those are likely to be very challenging times.
ReplyDelete"I'm dreaming of a white....you know the thing."
ReplyDelete"Us do opposite of all earthly things." Supermans Bizzaro code on planet Htrae. We are a Bizzaro High School science project gone mainstream. The entire premise of the NWO, Great Reset movement is to make you doubt and question your basic beliefs and therefore your sanity.
There is no voting our way out of this one.
ReplyDeleteI think if a real secession attempt were to happen, what followed would depend a lot on the regional balance of power. Rural Missouri, for example, is deeply red; most counties voted 75-80% Trump in November, or even higher (thank God we have election returns we can trust. Pay attention to your state and local races, folks), and while I know some liberals in the area, I think (based on my knowledge of them) if things were to get that point, those who were willing and able to head for STL or another liberal enclave would, and those who weren't would keep quiet. Likely the reverse would be true in say, Long Island or NoVa. So I don't think it would *immediately* go to "Bosnia x Rwanda," I think we'd instead see a lot of population transfer in both directions, as people unhappy with which side of the line they ended up on try to get to the other side.
ReplyDeleteAll that being said, I can't imagine it wouldn't ultimately end in the "Bosnia x Rwanda" scenario, either. On the one hand, the Left's philosophy, over and over again, has come down to "rule or ruin," and there's no way that wouldn't hold true here as well. On the other hand, I don't think anyone really wants to see America torn in two permanently. Much as I fantasize about secession sometimes, the idea of Plymouth Rock and Niagara Falls and the Golden Gate belonging to a foreign country is really galling, when you get right down to it. And on the third hand, America's basic geopolitical security, Blue or Red, is tied up with it maintaining control of the current boundaries. Losing control of the Rio Grande would be bad enough, but the Pacific Coast? That would be long-term disaster from every perspective.
Secession is nice to think about, and honestly, I think a serious attempt at it is coming. However, I also think if it happens, it will be only a prelude to both sides playing for all the marbles.
Civil War II: The Coming Breakup of America by Thomas W. Chittum provided a similar expose on dividing lines way back in 1997. I suspect that after the uncomfortable kinetic-ness warlords and territories would suddenly appear as if by magic.
ReplyDeleteAnother tack is to get red states to follow the blue states in telling the feds to pound sand. Blue cities/counties and even states have officially laughed off the feds regarding immigration and drugs for years. Turnabout is fair play.
ReplyDeleteThere are a whole host of relatively fresh Republicans who seem to get it. There are at least 3 Freshmen Republicans in the House who, despite having vaginas, have more balls than the rest of the old guard combined. And given that Repubs still control a plurality (damn near a majority) of state trifectas, this would be an excellent way to gum up the works. State legislators listen to constituents a lot more than the federal congress critters do.
Some folks have given me fresh nudges, and I've updated my formula.
ReplyDeleteNow I see Civil War Two as:
CW2 = Weimar X Yugoslavia X Rwanda
The guy in Apt B-3 vs the family in A-2 is exactly and tragically right.
The only good advice I can come up with, for some time now, is this:
GET AWAY FROM BLUE HIVES ASAP. Or any cities.
The killing zones are going to be the suburbs. If you live in a suburb near a blue hive, it's going to be horrible. If you live in a state that's dem blue from top to bottom, near a blue hive, you are screwed totally.
There will be degrees of worse. It will be less worse to be in rural Florida than the Chicago suburbs. In recent American history, plenty of folks have had to simply walk away from their homes and mortgages, for purely economic reasons. Start all over in a new state, with a bad credit score, yet they did it, and made it all over again.
How much more reason do you need to leave a blue state near a blue hive than the MUCH worse outcome than losing your home, that is, losing your life? Losing the lives of your family?
Weimar X Yugoslavia X Rwanda. My only advice is: GET AWAY FROM THE PREDICTABLE KILLING ZONES.
I home I'm 100% wrong, and everybody is laughing at me in a couple years. I really do.
Refugees will flee the citys
ReplyDeleteI am tired of 'what the leftists would allow"; or, want; or whatever. The left can just eff off, and be glad they aren't bullet stops. Or, they can be bullet stops. There is no need for secession; but there is an overwhelming need for educating liberals in "self preservation". Or, how about "no". Get off my lawn...
ReplyDeleteSounds to me like the only option left is to kill a lot of people, until they quit doing what they're doing. But who's gonna bell the mouse?
ReplyDelete"If you're worried about a conflict, the lesson of history is to stop worrying about a hidey hole, go forth, and f**k up some of the Bad Guy's stuff.
ReplyDeleteIt's fun, satisfying, and actually accomplishes worthwhile goals.
"A good tactic is one your people enjoy." - Saul Alinsky, Rules For Radicals"
The American Right already has tactics that it loves - nay, worships - and has used for decades, namely: do nothing, but whine about how unfair it all is. Hell, look at the utter passivity in the face of all the provocations just over the last few months, to say nothing of the last few decades. Either there is no fight in this dog, or it is so utterly disciplined that the Roman legions, Macedonian Companion Cavalry, and Imperial Japanese Army are all looking on in sheer awe.
A successful breakup would just mean a bunch of European styled wars; over and over again.
ReplyDeleteKey phrase: "....than anyone wants to confront". I'll leave it at that.
ReplyDeleteThe weaker the central government becomes, the more violent they will become.
ReplyDeleteKinda like an ex-wife. Not that I'd know.
-JW
hmmmm. First, for anyone shaming people who just want to work and be left alone as not combative enough, a mature civilization is made up of and desperately needs these people. They might not be what we need right now, but they are historically and economically necessary in a large, complex society. So stop that shit right away. You want shopkeepers who are all retired SF? Engineers who all want to be guerillas? Farmers who all are weekend snipers? If you think that way you are an idiot, are therefore part of the problem and should be excluded from any significant role going forward.
ReplyDeleteSecond, secession starts as an idea and grows from there. It would be messy as fuck this time, too, for the "intermixing" reasons stated by others above. But populations arr mobile, this having been demonstrated over thousands of years of human history.
Secession would take place incrementally, with populations refusing to comply with DC over wedge issues such as gun control and border enforcement, leading to economic pressure from DC such as withholding funds, de-banking and so on. The process would proceed "slowly at first and then suddenly".
Simple answer. First you would have to take our our government as succession needs congressional approval.
ReplyDelete@Swrichmond,
ReplyDelete1) People who "just want to work and be left alone" got us where we are today: to the point of society needing "shopkeepers who are all retired SF", "engineers who all want to be guerillas", and "farmers who all are weekend snipers". People in Hell want ice water. Wanting is not the same as having, and you either do what you want, and make society conform to your wishes; or you do what somebody else wants, and learn to love the taste of shit sandwich 24/7/365. Telling people that isn't "shaming" anyone, except for their failure to understand Reality doesn't give a damn about one's wants. Less than 2% of France joined the resistance to the Nazis. Such an anemic level of participation and desire for freedom ensures the Nazis never leave of their own free accord, and you never earn your freedom, but if expediency or sufficient pity sways your allies, they may choose to give it back to you as an incidental gift, probably just once.
2) Secession starts as a delusion, then grows into a psychosis, as such is wholly impossible IRL. Sane people recognize this. Recognizing reality is the hallmark of sanity, just as not recognizing it is the hallmark of insanity.
3) Explain to the class how migration and "refusing to comply" worked out for Indians after 1492, kulaks after 1920, German jews after 1933, Filipinos after 1942, or Uighurs in China five seconds ago. Identify to where nearly half the current US population will migrate, and explain how that will be accomplished. Show all work.
People who want to sit this one out will either be collaborators, collateral damage, or refugees. Possibly all three, at different times. The Universe doesn't take requests. Resolving that, if thrown to the lions, one will do their utmost to taste bad on the way to the beasts' stomachs, is a poor final alternative to leave oneself.
I don't understand people talking about voting OR the whole 'this is how we do it legally within the system...' Did everyone miss what just happened?
ReplyDeleteThere simply is no voting or operating within the system anymore. That option was removed by the system itself.
People accustomed to warm dens don't like the bracing bite of a cold winter wind; it's a shock to the system.
ReplyDeleteIt's going to take some time for folks to adjust to the fact that it's time to take the plunge, but most will resist the obvious as long as they can do so.
Inertia is human nature, and multiplied in large groups.
Even President Trump refused to adjust to reality in time to stop this when he still had the means. that should tell you something.
For Aesop/Bracken/Concerned American:
ReplyDeleteApologies for the intrusion here from a technophobe/illiterate, but some info that may need disseminating so folks can contact their congresscritter and advise that this puts us at the edge of 1776.2. Link is safe: https://youtu.be/BNtiFDQTTNM
It's HR 127; read the whole thing. I'm not aware that I need such restrictions in order to enact my god-given rights...
Thanks, and pardon the intrusion off-topic; just trying to get this info out.
Keep head down and watch topknots.
"Even President Trump refused to adjust to reality in time to stop this when he still had the means. that should tell you something."
ReplyDeleteI've pondered that statement for a couple days now, and it still hits like a slap upside the head. I've no idea what or even if he plans to do anything now, but what I'm seeing and hearing from everyone around him is either benign little misdirection (Oh look! a squirrel!) or just ominous silence. The silence is beyond any pathetic attempts at censorship, and leaves me wondering all the more what is coming down the pike.
We have very few sources of information we can trust now, and if things go kinetic as you phrase it, I recognize that our sources of information go to near zero. The internet will go black, and radio is just junk now, even SW and HAM depend too much on repeaters and internet to function as they used to decades ago.
Here in the midst of flyover country, we'll keep our tanks topped and larders filled as long as we can, and otherwise maintain that low profile of the grey man.
Aesop:
ReplyDeleteI commented on one of your blog posts a couple years ago, asking with reference to Claire Wolf's famous quote, when it would be time to shoot the bastards? You had a reasoned response then, but the rise of tyranny has continued unabated. Between the election fraud, GameStop games & many other related shenanigans, the elites aren't even trying anymore to hide their corruption and hatred of us serfs.
As I commented over at Borepatch's patch, I agree that a peaceful secession seems unlikely. It's also unlikely as you suggest that anyone with any sense is moving back to Commiefornia. For me working in IT, 2020 was a banner work year, as I worked 7 days a week helping many clients exit stage East & South as their companies bailed out to states with better business climates, taking their tax payments with them.
Like the Titanic, the Golden State & the US are sadly doomed to sink. As I stated over at the 'Patch, as long as the elites keep the power on and food available, normalcy bias & cognitive dissonance will keep the serfs in line for a while. I have no idea what the trigger will be, but at some point system failure is inevitable and the violence & death that follows will be beyond what most people can imagine.
I get that reason and cogent thought are probably a bridge to far, but given how the elites and their acolytes hate us, why isn't secession an option, especially considering the prospective hell that awaits both sides?
@SITA,
ReplyDelete1) If you sift through one of my posts since 1/20, "it's now time to shoot the bastards".
2) Who will secede? From whom?
You have no state nor region where such is even contemplatable.
You cannot secede from your neighbors on the next block, and the folks on the second floor of the apartment building cannot secede from the folks on the 1st and third floors.
The country is not divided North/South, nor urban/rural, nor red/blue. It is 100% Shades Of Purple. the divisions aren't even 100/0 or 90/10 at the precinct level. We are purple down to intergenerational family levels.
3) That is an inescapable recipe for civil war on an ethnic cleansing level of undertaking, and what must be, shall be. The Democommunists are discussing same, openly, out loud, without shame. When a homicidal lunatic tells you how he's going to kill you and dismember your corpse, take him at his word.
4) And shoot the bastard in the face, until he stops moving.