Ryan blogged my reply, and his thoughts, because nobody who blogs regularly turns down a ready-made post.
One good turn deserves another.
Ryan posted:
Yesterdays Real World Bug Outs post got a lengthy comment from Aesop that I wanted to discuss. I will post it and my comments will be in italics.
I think we could talk in circles about what the right time amounts are. As I look at my list the initial 15 minute time hack is way longer than I would need to do what is on the list. 5 might be a bit optimistic (where are my darn keys right now, etc all) but I could certainly call it 10. It would be 15 at least with kids.
For the long time I need to think about it a bit more.
I like the list broken down by trip idea. That is neat.
This is where the real world part comes in. We aren't fleeing the zombie apocalypse to go camp in the woods or something. Thus a need for a tent and traps and a bunch of bulk food isn't present. I'll be living on a couch or in a cheap motel eating pizza or microwave food from the grocery store. So I do not need to waste time and space on that stuff. Having some capability, like a BOB makes sense but that time and vehicle space would be much more useful for Great Grandmas rocking chair or something. I suppose the specific event and your plan will ultimately dictate. I can see myself ending up with 2 lists, one for an event during normal times and another or the dreaded zombie apocalypse.
You kind of lost me with the talk of color coding and circling. Pre packing stuff makes sense though. I am pretty much there. Concur about the list. My plan is to firm it up an then do just that.
Pre staging stuff in a risky situation (there is a fire nearby, not quite close enough to evacuate yet, etc) certainly makes sense. Having your normal vehicle loaded to bug out at all times sounds kind of problematic. A full set up ready to go in a dedicated vehicle would be cool if you have one and a relatively secure place to store it.
I concur with this [vehicle kit] and have more or less the same set up in my vehicle.
I am inclined to agree with you [re:kid bags being "too hard"]. The difference is you and I are fairly committed to all of this stuff. Normal folks aren't. So what is an acceptable level of hassle to you is not to them.
I use a small backpack so I can stuff it into my BOB if needed.
This [monthly updating the stuff]is on my to do list.
Scanning photos is a great idea. I will add it to my to do list.
I would probably just ask them [relatives] to hold onto said thumb drive for me.
This kind of thing [small caches] definitely has some cool possibilities. I am certainly a fan of caches.
And back again from me:
1) Concur on the "two lists" idea, one for regular displacement, and another for the never-coming-back Zombie apocalypse.
But...
You're heading to Grandma's house next state over. Or wherever.
Get detoured/traffic hell/vehicle problem/breakdown en route.
Okay for regular list if you're in town.
But if you're stuck in BFEgypt Middle of Nowhere, a tent and such might be a much better idea than sleeping cramped up inside the car.
Just saying, there probably shouldn't be that much difference.
I'm sure you've read Zero's blog, and seen multiple stories of people on ordinary trips who ended up in an accident, stranded, lost, clueless, unprepared, etc.
I think in terms of Gilligan's Island:
"a three hour tour, a three hour tour..."
Except no Ginger or Maryanne.
2) As to the list and color coding:
An example
Item 1, briefcase/backpack and B.O.B. - the red circled "1", in the gun safe
Item 2, maps & comms - the black circled "2" in the hall closet, top shelf
Item 3, weapons & ammo - the green circled "3" in the gun safe
Item 4, water & filters - the blue circled "4" in the garage cabinet
and so on.
Schematic plan of house, what the item is, where it is, etc.
In case you've got help for packing (spouse/gf/older kids/etc.):
"You grab the evens, and I'll grab the odds." etc.
But also because in times of stress, your memory and critical thinking goes to shit.
Having your brains on paper in front of your face saves time.
Easy is smooth, Smooth is fast.
If anyone's location enables them to stage them mostly all together side by side, to minimize where/how far each trip is, good for you.
3) Pre-packing some things is what I was getting at, not leaving the whole vehicle loaded 24/7/forever with everything. Unless you can afford that, and buying a surplus tank or APC.
A pre-packed map case should already be in the car. Fits under the seat in most vehicles. Then all you'd have to grab for an evac is the GPS, radios, phone gear, etc. and batts.
And while you don't need 5 jerry cans of water in the car all the time, putting in a really good Katadyn etc. filter takes up about the space of a flashlight, but gets you water anytime or place if you've got anything wet to filter. And 2.5 gal mil-spec style water jugs are 2 1/2 days of water for 1 person in a space a little bigger than a .50 cal ammo can, and much sturdier than a milk jug.
Just saying, if there's anything that can live just as well in the car as at home, or you have the means to have two of something (can opener, water filter, whatever) then having one in the car already saves you trips, which is time, which could get you out alive, or ahead of the rush, and in much better shape at the other end.
Pack your car like a firefighter packs a truck, or a movie prop guy packs his prop van: take everything you might need that'll fit, because once you get there, you don't know what you'll find, and what you will need. And you never know what's really going to happen to you once you leave the garage.
The car all-the-time kit's another topic/post, but back in the day, I could fit a whole lot of emergency goodness in one laundry-basket sized Rubbermaid tote bin.
A pre-packed map case should already be in the car. Fits under the seat in most vehicles. Then all you'd have to grab for an evac is the GPS, radios, phone gear, etc. and batts.
And while you don't need 5 jerry cans of water in the car all the time, putting in a really good Katadyn etc. filter takes up about the space of a flashlight, but gets you water anytime or place if you've got anything wet to filter. And 2.5 gal mil-spec style water jugs are 2 1/2 days of water for 1 person in a space a little bigger than a .50 cal ammo can, and much sturdier than a milk jug.
Just saying, if there's anything that can live just as well in the car as at home, or you have the means to have two of something (can opener, water filter, whatever) then having one in the car already saves you trips, which is time, which could get you out alive, or ahead of the rush, and in much better shape at the other end.
Pack your car like a firefighter packs a truck, or a movie prop guy packs his prop van: take everything you might need that'll fit, because once you get there, you don't know what you'll find, and what you will need. And you never know what's really going to happen to you once you leave the garage.
The car all-the-time kit's another topic/post, but back in the day, I could fit a whole lot of emergency goodness in one laundry-basket sized Rubbermaid tote bin.
I once had a regular driving territory every week that took me from L.A. to the Colorado River and back, including beach/ocean area, oak chaparral, forested mountains in the snow line, and Sonoran desert. And the same for movie work, for years and ongoing, everywhere in SoCal from Santa Barbara to San Diego to Death Valley To Vegas to Salton Sea, on dirt roads, at the beach, in a desert lake bed, and at 7000' in the mountains, many/most times miles from cell reception or anything like civilization. I could leave in sunshine and be sitting in fresh snow, sleet, or freezing rain, same day; or leave in marine layer clouds, and spend the day in 110-degree desert, followed by 60-degree desert night. One winter day I left Furnace Creek in Death Valley (-282 feet el.) at 70 degrees, and spent the day working at sea level above and outside the valley in a wind chill of 26 degrees (40 degrees outside, and 45+MPH winds).
Having "stuff" in the car is the difference between a day trip, and a survival ordeal.
Best regards,
Aesop
Best regards,
Aesop
The color coding thing and schematics - is that a Marine thing? Because my father was the same. Color coded dots on everything, tied to a list AND a spreadsheet, and whenever we'd move he'd have the new house layout down to the inch and furniture already placed before we even got there.
ReplyDeleteMarines have GOT to be some of the most organized, competent people on the planet. I ever need to "declutter", I'm not calling in some woman. I'm calling in a Marine :D
All good to talk about, even interesting.
ReplyDeleteI do have some qualms about the 5 minutes and I'm on the road thing. From my offshore sailing experience, the shit hitting the boat always comes at a most inconvenient time. O dark thirty in a rain/hail/squall is when some guy (that would be me) manages to go over the rail or break/lose something useful and the boat winds up on it's side.
My assumption is the wind is going to turn on that wildfire around about 10am when you're at work, the wife is some other place and the kids are at 2 different schools. The cells are jammed or you're out of battery and the roads are clogged. You go for the kids and the wife decides to do whatever wives decide to do in these situations.
Question; how long does it take to get out of Dodge?
I interpreted the 5 minutes to mean 5 minutes from the time you decide to go and are at home to get the gear. The clock does not start until that point. (Sort of like in military planning where D-Day and H-Hour are the start times. So in this case the grab and go starts at H minus5 minutes)
ReplyDeleteKid is grown and has own car, so we are only basically talking about 3 adults working together.
I assume the cell system will crash and never plan on relying on it.
We have a plan to rally in one of 3 places (home being primary and automatic, other 2 depending on situation and coordinated between us at the time).
All of us have amateur radio licenses and mobiles in the vehicles that will run as long as they do. Dual band so literally hundreds of frequencies available on simplex even if the repeaters are down/jammed, and limited text over amateur frequencies.
Even whenkid was in school, they've been licensed since age 10 and have a hand held radio of their own.
You might be able to do the same thing with CB, FRS or Business band radios depending on your circumstances.
Loren,
ReplyDeleteIt takes as long as it takes, but it'll generally take a lot longer if you don't have a plan, or the slightest clue how to go about it.
"Failure to plan, is planning to fail."
I did the five minute bug-out. It was a 7 point earthquake, with a 6.5 aftershock. Got up, got dressed, grabbed a bag and packed it on the fly, gear, weapons, and GTFO.
I moved two cars to the street (out from under the building), went back in to get the wife, and we each took one load of what we needed, locked the doors, and split.
And that was with no major prior pre-planning, in the dark, at 4:30AM.
(I do not recommend this as something to go through.)
I seem to remember some quote about plans and battles......never mind. A plan is probably a good idea. You'll sleep better anyway.
ReplyDeleteLast earthquake I was in (Napa around 2001?) I picked myself off the floor and went back to bed. Never occurred to me to drive anywhere.
Randy's radios do sound like a real good idea, though an EMP might mess with that some.
As to the 5 minutes, I interpret it to mean 5 minutes after the shit lands on my doorstep. How could it mean anything else? My own personal belief is traffic woes will kill far more people than sheltering in place or dirtbags with Glocks.
Anyway my point of commenting at all, besides being bored on this rainy day, is a bug out plan is second best to moving out of Dodge before you need one.
As Always, I enjoy the blog.