tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post4891867938396130658..comments2024-03-28T09:26:11.184-07:00Comments on Raconteur Report: You don't LIKE a Fustercluck? This is how you GET a fustercluck.Aesophttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07834464741531503378noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-662904771216073642018-08-29T02:40:10.243-07:002018-08-29T02:40:10.243-07:00@The Gray Man:
Your last paragraph. *shudder* H...@The Gray Man:<br /><br />Your last paragraph. *shudder* Hell, just in NYC.<br /><br />I was in China this summer (on business). The factories I visited were rat-warrens of close contact, with companies having - onsite - apartments for their workers who are crammed in 6-8 per apartment (doubtless small, I didn't seem them).<br /><br />NITZAKHONhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04110716447757507226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-66996409302033821222018-08-28T21:05:48.929-07:002018-08-28T21:05:48.929-07:00Thanks for the response, and no, I don't take ...Thanks for the response, and no, I don't take it personally, because I'm one of those people who likes to be disagreed with because that's how we all get smarter and better at, well, actual intelligent thought?<br /><br />Anyway, I do agree with a lot of what you're saying and I guess it really almost comes down to logistics more so than actual capabilities of medical staff and whatever protocols we think we have in place. And then of course it comes down to whether or not our "betters" deem it necessary to DO what's necessary to prevent this mess from spreading to our airports.<br /><br />I fully agree that when Ebola pops up in some African ancient history lesson of a "country", we should stop incoming persons from within a thousand miles of that location. Same for other bugs even less deadly than Ebola. Hell, do the same for common cold for all I care.<br /><br />The last time this country of our's actually NEEDED people from other countries, was probably around the year 1900, MAYBE. If your country has a problem with warlords, Ebola, socialists, bird flu, swine flu, cockroach flu, opium addiction, Muslim self-detonators, drug cartels, etc., then I think the airports and seaports and border crossings should be closed off to you.<br /><br />Really, I just think that we as a nation, really we as an American medical community, would absolutely definitely do a better job containing and dealing with an Ebola outbreak, if for no other reason than we might actually have a statistically significant portion of the citizenry who'll attempt to assist, rather than steal bloody bandages to perform witching ceremonies with.<br /><br />I could be wrong though. My wife and I have done RN work and have experience in hospitals as great as Shands at UF, or as shitty as, well, shitty hospitals. I guess this is just one more topic in a million where I come to realize that "the United States" is just too big, populated, spread out and diverse to be considered a single place anymore. We talk about the outbreaks in Congo and in Sierra Leone and Guinea and Liberia, and then we talk about a possible future outbreak in... The massive US of A! The experience of Ebola, if we are subjected to one, will be different in the various regions of America.<br /><br />LA, NYC, parts of Texas, South Florida, New England... Avoid. Shit, can you imagine if Ebola got into Mexico City, Rio DJ, Bogota, Caracas, Haiti...The Gray Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15098168056466325559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-65392600830715573742018-08-27T02:40:35.264-07:002018-08-27T02:40:35.264-07:00@AB Prosper:
Many years ago I lived in a teeny-ti...@AB Prosper:<br /><br />Many years ago I lived in a teeny-tiny town with a hospital. I was told by more than one person that if I were having a heart attack, flip a coin going there or trying to make it to the BIG hospital an hour away.NITZAKHONhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04110716447757507226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-80203759001327312652018-08-26T18:06:27.370-07:002018-08-26T18:06:27.370-07:00Anyone saying the US has a 1st world health care s...Anyone saying the US has a 1st world health care system is full of it. Huge parts have no health care other than an emergency room and some not even that. Many areas are quite second tier and none of them prepared for 1917 flu much less Ebola <br /><br />We also have up to 114K homeless in California alone , even if some of these are just "staying with friends" or the like there is vast pool of potential carriers with substandard health care (better than none Cali has socialized medicine of a sort) It takes only a few of them getting infected of them to create a nightmare scenario AB.Prospernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-86085268111597291172018-08-26T15:34:57.817-07:002018-08-26T15:34:57.817-07:00The book THE HOT ZONE predicted this - it was a sc...The book THE HOT ZONE predicted this - it was a scary read.<br /><br />Most people, especially in the cities, do not have a week of food, let alone the 40+ days needed to self-quarantine.NITZAKHONhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04110716447757507226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-42466737579041879042018-08-26T11:19:05.103-07:002018-08-26T11:19:05.103-07:00Right.
Look, the vaccine sounds very promising, a...Right.<br /><br />Look, the vaccine sounds very promising, all we could hope for.<br />So, we get another Duncan (or ten) here, how fast can they whistle up 350M doses...?<br /><br />And what happens, everywhere, if we, let alone large swaths of humanity, have to go into self-imposed house arrest for weeks, months, or years?<br /><br />A wee bit more appreciation for those realities wouldn't go amiss.<br /><br />Nor a bit of reality about what happened last time: two doctors and a nurse exposed to Ebola decided they were too special to self-quarantine. Two more nurses turned themselves in for treatment the moment they spiked a fever. (A lot of that is the difference between actual bedside clinical practitioners and bureaucratic prima donnas, but still...)<br /><br />Not counting the returnees who contracted Ebola overseas, we had three fulminant US cases, and one died. The two survivors will never have the life they did before the disease. The point isn't how little happened, it's how close to the edge of catastrophe we skated. Two more patients, anywhere, and <i>every</i> hospital where a subsequent victim showed up would become THP. I work at the pointy end of that, and I'm telling you first-hand, screwing it up by the numbers and turning an outbreak into a pandemic is <i>exactly</i> how it's going to go.<br /><br />Four years after that experience, we're still in pants-around-our-ankles-and-head-up-our-@$$ mode, nationwide, top to bottom, from the CDC to the Podunk Community Clinic and Beauty Salon.<br /><br />The "It's never been a problem before..." line has the uncannily same ring to it as<br />"Mayor Vaughn wants the Amity beaches open by the 4th of July..."<br /><br />Maybe you've invested in a mutual fund, and heard the line "Past behavior is not a guarantee of future performance".<br /><br />Spanish flu, far less virulent than Ebola, killed 675,000 Americans, when our national population was 103M.<br />So that with Ebola would be 2M people dead of Ebola.<br />That's why H1N1 and SARS aren't what to look at; apples are not oranges.<br /><br />We get a good Ebola initial outbreak, like 10 or 20 people here, and we'll get those 2M Ebola deaths here. Maybe worse, and even <i>with</i> a vaccine.<br /><br />2014 in West Africa was 4 steps out of 20 from 1M Ebola victims.<br />At the speed of spread, that's three months, max.<br /><br />Here, from scratch, that's a year.<br />We'd need 50M doses of rVSV-ZEBOV within that year to stop that sort of outbreak from getting out of control.<br />Which is only 49,990,000 doses more than the total produced worldwide everywhere since 2003.<br /><br />The only thing that kept in Africa is poverty, because 99.9% of the country can't afford a plane ticket out. The per capita GDP in Liberia is US$14/wk.<br /><br />But if Ebola gets to a major city there, like Kinshasa, Nairobi, Cairo, Capetown, etc., then that flimsy protection goes out the window, and the virus gets disseminated worldwide at 550MPH.<br />And the customs inspector there is a guy making maybe US $100/wk, maybe 1/4 that, and is someone for whom a bribe is a perk, not an insult or a criminal offense.<br /><br />"It never happened before" at that point isn't even a good epitaph.Aesophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07834464741531503378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-10596014822769769862018-08-26T10:27:15.187-07:002018-08-26T10:27:15.187-07:00@June J.
Your reply is a spray of rants against t...@June J.<br /><br />Your reply is a spray of rants against the government. Fine.<br /><br />You can go to Wikipedia for info on the Ebola vaccination and find out about its effectiveness and limits. (There are over a half dozen versions in various states of testing; one has been deployed in Africa so far and is deemed effective (for some undefined value of effective).<br /><br />You echo alarmism. Better just to plan and prepare. Again, those who can and will isolate themselves are the ones with the greatest chances of survival. Communications as we have today (and did not have during the Spanish Flu pandemic) will certainly make a huge difference.<br /><br />I agree that the worst thing one could hear is "Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."<br /><br />When you hear: "Ebola has landed" you put your plan into action. You will hear that via one or more of many forms of communication. If you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, well, you may be screwed. Statistically the rest won't be.<br /><br />Recall SARS? H1N1? They didn't become big things because of communication first, effective isolation and increased hygiene next.<br /><br />I don't want to downplay Ebola - that would be silly. But it's had several turns at bat over the past few decades and has not managed to break out in any significant way. Yes, yes, Texas, blah blah.<br /><br />But then there's these two lists (outbreaks and isolated events):<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ebola_outbreaks<br /><br />You've got some 30,000 known cases there, over time. And yet The Walking Dead is still just a somewhat repetitive show on television ...<br /><br />J6Z.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-59948950987535678722018-08-26T09:17:59.634-07:002018-08-26T09:17:59.634-07:00And people wonder why I put up with an hour+ drive...And people wonder why I put up with an hour+ drive to work every day. I live on a dead-end street that is hard to find by just wandering around. For a reason. Not just THIS reason, mind you, but this is definitely on the list.NITZAKHONhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04110716447757507226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-21554096052690428672018-08-26T07:59:55.377-07:002018-08-26T07:59:55.377-07:00Relax, folks.
I've got this.
https://raconteu...Relax, folks.<br />I've got this.<br /><br />https://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2018/08/this-is-why-i-blog.htmlAesophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07834464741531503378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-14779880429819209032018-08-26T06:43:55.877-07:002018-08-26T06:43:55.877-07:00Other than that, Mrs. Kennedy, how did you like D...Other than that, Mrs. Kennedy, how did you like Dallas?15Fixernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-50940752978068448342018-08-26T06:21:11.078-07:002018-08-26T06:21:11.078-07:00J6Z- wake up and smell the reality brewing. Commu...J6Z- wake up and smell the reality brewing. Communication? When the government seems more interested in covering their ass and not alarming the people exactly when they should be alarming the people? When the “professionals” in charge of hospitals put profits before preparation, ignoring the warnings that have been provided? <br />Perhaps travel here to Dallas and talk to people who were on the front lines, who lived in the neighborhoods around the outbreak area and try to understand the absolute clusterf**k the situation was. <br />If you have conclusive documentation of your effective vaccination claims then post the links. <br />Anyone paying attention the last dozen years or so can see the ineptitude of the medical leadership, most of whom are unworthy to wipe the butts of the hardworking nurses and doctors who strive under the thumbs of corporate lawyers and the vey government stupidity you think is communicating wisdom. Then add in the progressive socialists who resist any common sense measures because they cannot be bothered with facts and reality. <br />If a majority of our nurses are going to opt out of stupidity when the next outbreak occurs we’re all screwed. <br />June Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-28428849207973983802018-08-26T05:57:49.707-07:002018-08-26T05:57:49.707-07:00Oops, left out a detail.
Vaccinations are now ava...<br />Oops, left out a detail.<br /><br />Vaccinations are now available for Ebola and one is in use in Africa following the "ring vaccination" protocol (vaccinate highest risk people). It is (apparently) effective (if not 100%) even on patients who have contracted Ebola.<br /><br />J6Z, signing off. Really. I mean it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-78139611768188742002018-08-26T05:47:41.111-07:002018-08-26T05:47:41.111-07:00Never for one second did I take what you went to a...Never for one second did I take what you went to all the work to warn us about Ebola anything but the most gruesome deadly Armeggedon literally waiting for the mathematics of all the worst series of things for it to go world wide end of days. <br />And except for my wife, not a soul I know worked with or bumped into gave a hoot if I talked with them about the dire possibilities. In its own way that is worse than the Ebola. <br />It sure made things easy to decide what my wif and I decided our course of action would be, and that was if we where to survive such an event it was literally screw you. You scoffed at us, and treated the discussion like an unwanted embarrassing family member.<br />I figured it was a situation where as we lived in about rural an area as you can find at least we had the advantages of enforcing that seclusion from population to a better degree than most, that once it went pandemic a non contact shoot on sight policy would go into effect. Or literally bug out our back door head into the almost uninhabited hundreds of square miles of rugged mountain terrain and live it out in a dugout like two possums hibernating.<br /><br />This shit is merciless. It is evolved to kill all in its way. It is cunning and enemy. There is no defense but total isolation from it and how is that possible in the world we have?<br />Only possible if your just as heartless cunning and have only total survival as your only prerogative. <br /><br />I’m saying how can people without that modern technology work together fighting it? It seems it is not possible. And brutal and ugly as it is the only way to survive it in a pandemic stage is to be absolutely cold blooded ruthless. Like Ebola.<br /><br />Or am I totally missing something? mtnforgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-6127443152024565762018-08-26T05:47:20.332-07:002018-08-26T05:47:20.332-07:00Wow. Alarmist much?
The key things that will con...<br />Wow. Alarmist much?<br /><br />The key things that will contain an Ebola outbreak in Europe, North America, etc., is communications.<br /><br />Where rural level Africans are very hard to convince about the dangers of spreading disease, there won't be much such issue in Europe, North American, Most of Asia, Most of South America. People are educated (enough) to know what is right and wrong. (Recall the SARS and H1N1 outbreaks - hygiene went up 4 notches).<br /><br />Get the word out, and people will avoid people. People will up their hygiene game. Etc. Can't spread w/o bodily fluid contact.<br /><br />So there will possibly be other Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital events. That did not result in a pandemic. At all.<br /><br />Of course it's not the CDC saying "we got this". It's people with information who will say, "Stay the f--- away from me, dude!" that will burn out a pandemic quickly. (Indeed, the CDC will probably say, "Tell people to stay away.").<br /><br />In that sense, planning and preparing now (true prepping, not the arm myself to the rafters with AR-15 prepping) is a much better tool than alarmist articles as above. (And you don't need to repeat "bleeding from the (orifice of choice)" so often to make a point).<br /><br />J6Z, signing off.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-15175362113761039062018-08-26T04:58:09.030-07:002018-08-26T04:58:09.030-07:00Really? She's making big money for a MA.Really? She's making big money for a MA.The Gray Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15098168056466325559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-20742687286177222192018-08-25T21:33:19.585-07:002018-08-25T21:33:19.585-07:00I just read the entire story and all of the commen...<br />I just read the entire story and all of the comments about it.<br /><br />The one thing I gather from it all is this: We are fucked.<br /><br />There will be no precautions taken, no stopped flights until it's too late, no beds made ready to treat Ebola or any other outbreak.<br /><br />Just chalk this one up there with a major financial crisis, nuclear war, terrorist attack, etc...<br /><br />Prepare your home for whatever crisis you think might happen and do the best with what you have, but just expect that you are going to have to kiss your ass goodbye if one of a myriad of potential crises happen.<br /><br />This planet is a dangerous place.<br /><br />Oh, and please, everyone put some grip tape on your shower floor.BTLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-13672516809255351572018-08-25T18:47:42.673-07:002018-08-25T18:47:42.673-07:00Ebola demonstrates droplet transmission.
Droplets ...Ebola demonstrates droplet transmission.<br />Droplets are <i>de facto</i> airborne transmission for anyone within 30' or so.<br />Hence infection via proximity without any physical contact to victims who are actively infected, coughing, sneezing, etc.<br />They are not true airborne transmission, like pneumonic plague or TB, simply because droplets are heavy enough that they do not continuously float around.<br /><br />To this day, they don't know where the 2014 outbreak originated from, nor why it stopped.<br />Not a single one of the parameters outlined by MSF and WHO to contain the outbreak there was <i>ever</i> met.<br /><i>Not a single one</i>.<br /><br />Ebola is never taken seriously here until it's confirmed.<br />That's precisely the silliness that would have to change if we were serious about halting the spread of an outbreak.<br />We weren't then, and we aren't now, and that delusional silliness in the face of a ravening plague will ensure that the next time will be as bad, or worse, than the last one.<br /><br />If instead of just Duncan, there had ben ten or twenty victims in Dallas, or anywhere else, it probably would have wiped out hundreds of thousands to millions, and nothing would have stopped it but bayonets and napalm, and the total collapse of society. Worse, there's the very real possibility that it would have found an indigenous host species on this continent, and then it would keep coming back, just like in Africa, and "first-world" medicine would be as effective as a screen door on a submarine in trying to stop it.<br />You, I, and the entire populace on this continent were two active Ebola victims away from that in 2014.<br /><br /><i>Two</i>.<br />If Duncan had infected just two family members in his apartment before coming in, everything you hold dear would likely have been wiped away, like a cow swishing flies with its tail, and the dead would have been stacked in heaps.<br /><br /><i>Just like in West Africa</i>.<br /><br />And I see no apprehension of that basic truth to this day, where it matters.Aesophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07834464741531503378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-53208608229770032572018-08-25T17:41:02.656-07:002018-08-25T17:41:02.656-07:00CDC says “we know how to handle Ebola” yet a Dalla...CDC says “we know how to handle Ebola” yet a Dallas nurse who treated the patient is allowed to board a commercial flight. <br />This is the kind of stupidity that kills millions while assholes like Obama swear there’s nothing to worry about.June Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-14746390534041056402018-08-25T15:18:34.930-07:002018-08-25T15:18:34.930-07:00It seems to me that the scenario you describe woul...It seems to me that the scenario you describe would be accurate for an airborne pathogen. My understanding is that Ebola is not airborne transmissible and that is the only reason why the scenario you sketch did not happen in '14. I suspect your scenario is 100% spot on with regards to the incompetence of CDC and the medical centers in question. There is another issue that I'm certain you are very aware of that you do not present. That is the issue that, until they get the actual diagnosis of Ebola, they will take it seriously and instead will treat it as a billing event. They certainly did with the guy who showed up at the Dallas ER, where I heard 79 (Yes, I actually heard this figure) doctors, nurses, and medical technicians of various sort showed up in the guy's room until they figured out it was Ebola.kurt9https://www.blogger.com/profile/02101147267959016924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-55328588558705865402018-08-25T13:50:24.550-07:002018-08-25T13:50:24.550-07:00"When to halt flights?
Now.
Odds this presi..."When to halt flights?<br /><br />Now.<br /><br />Odds this president will take my suggestion to shell the ports and crater the runways? RandyBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04571294620667707515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-73397558935112777612018-08-25T12:54:29.839-07:002018-08-25T12:54:29.839-07:001) Yes, you can set up your house to slightly posi...1) Yes, you can set up your house to slightly positively pressurized.<br />2) As to setting up remotely maintainable filtration, I plead technological ignorance.<br />3) None of that is necessary.<br /><br />To paraphrase my drill instructor "Ebola isn't going to low crawl up the driveway and butt-f**k you."<br /><br />Ebola, at his point is transmitted by direct contact with blood, or aerosolized droplets of it.<br />That gives it a maximum range of maybe as much as twenty yards from a good sneeze.<br />unless you anticipate people strapping helium weather balloons to lawn chairs, drifting over your home, and venting their bloody bowels on you via aerial assault, a chain link fence and 50' of distance from the boundary line would solve the whole Ebola problem.<br /><br />And a positive pressure domicile won't keep it out if you go out among the infected and bring it back on your shoes, clothes, or simply contract it yourself and then sneeze and cough it on your family a few days later.<br /><br />All you need is a fence, a gate, and a lock, plus sufficient food and water.<br />And you stay in, and everyone else stays out.<br />Unless somebody fills a cropduster's spray tanks with Ebola-rich infected blood, and aerosolizes a mist of it onto your home, you're good to go with nothing more than a gate and a loaded shotgun.<br /><br />It's not that hard to avoid.<br /><br />It also means no human contact or travel or commerce whatsoever in infected areas until 42 days after the disease burns itself out, and then disposing of the remains left behind with gasoline and a flare, and/or spraying everything else down with tanker truckloads of concentrated chlorine bleach, and funereal pyres that would make a respectable Aggie pep rally bonfire.<br /><br />If this becomes an everything everywhere pandemic, you can't go out among it, unless you're suicidal.Aesophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07834464741531503378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-43917912032327661092018-08-25T11:36:21.583-07:002018-08-25T11:36:21.583-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09701674117568888716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-70770575680448933562018-08-25T11:27:07.024-07:002018-08-25T11:27:07.024-07:00Exactly the point.
When they told us to add those...Exactly the point.<br /><br />When they told us to add those questions to triage, I refused to waste my time.<br /><br />THEM: "<i>What's wrong with you? Don't you think it's a good idea to find out if someone might have been exposed to Ebola?</i>"<br />ME: "If it was that important, why aren't I asking them that question outside, in full PAPR and encapsulating suit, if you think it's a possibility at all?"<br />THEM: "<i>Shit!</i>"<br />ME: "I have a nursing license and a brain, and neither of them is two hours old."<br />I took a leave of absence the following week.<br /><br />"Preparations" like that are CYA kabuki theater and happy gas, so TPTB can tell themselves they're "doing something".Aesophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07834464741531503378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-81130067347989546482018-08-25T11:03:58.119-07:002018-08-25T11:03:58.119-07:00Tragically funny story: Back in 2014 I had an appt...Tragically funny story: Back in 2014 I had an appt to see my cardiologist at the local VA clinic. Part of the procedure before seeing the Dr. is have my vitals etc. reviewed by his nurse. Nurse: (upon me sitting down in her office) Have you been to any countries in Africa recently? Me: (laughing maniacally) Well, if I had and I had Ebola, you're already dead along with everyone in the waiting room and every person I've come in contact with since I entered the building. Nurse: I know kind of a ridiculous question at this point. Me: Why haven't they set up a triage station, out side the building, to check before anyone enters? Nurse: (smiling) That's too sensible.<br /><br />I maybe wouldn't have responded thus without reading your timely, cogent reporting on the situation back then.<br /><br />NemoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-714028479313834812.post-27042213996671177812018-08-25T10:19:24.779-07:002018-08-25T10:19:24.779-07:00Aesop,
One of your best rants! Consider Al Qae...Aesop,<br /> One of your best rants! Consider Al Qaeda operatives self-infecting in Africa and then entering the US from our porous Southern border, or Canada. Consider spending their remaining days on public transport in Detroit, Baltimore, Atlanta or other such roiling fleshpots...God is Great! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com